Course Design Pet Peeve

Give your questions or comments on your favorite or least favorite courses, locations, etc.

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Postby wdb4th » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:24 am

Willie, you speak my mind.

Also, courses with "natural" teepads that suck. With with ditches in them! Fairfield Park in Round Lake Beach IL
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Postby MR. WICK » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:44 am

My biggest gripe is courses that only consider the right handed backhand route. ie lots of righty hyzers. I throw lhbh and this just pisses me off. At least give me a few holes that have a lefty hyzer line that can be thrown cleanly.
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Postby Timko » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:49 am

  • consecutive holes where I throw the same shot. Mix a straight driver shot with a right turning midrange shot, then a short turnover/flick, uphill drive, then downhill.
  • Incorrect distances on holes, especially blind ones. Sign age that doesn't accuracy depict the hole.
  • Trash.
  • 18 holes with flat greens. I like em tricky!
  • Courses where I don't get to throw my midranges. Either have shorter holes, or par 4's that have a midrange approach.
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Postby Fritz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:52 am

wdb4th wrote:Willie, you speak my mind.

Also, courses with "natural" teepads that suck. With with ditches in them! Fairfield Park in Round Lake Beach IL


Totally. I almost broke my ankle at one in Littleton, CO, and I know someone who did. Unmaintained Natural Tee Pads SUCK!
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Postby Will Aubrey » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:48 am

There is a course in Glasgow that used to have dirt teepads and they were fine. Then someone got the not so bright idea of putting loose sand on the teepads. Now the surface shifts when you step. I'm always afraid I'll twist my ankle when I play there.

I second the comment about disliking courses that are all par 3's.
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Postby sleepy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:57 am

Will Aubrey wrote:I second the comment about disliking courses that are all par 3's.

Best not come to Michigan then...every course I've ever played here has been a par 3 on each hole.


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Postby Fritz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:21 pm

sleepy wrote:
Will Aubrey wrote:I second the comment about disliking courses that are all par 3's.

Best not come to Michigan then...every course I've ever played here has been a par 3 on each hole.


sleepy


Arent' all holes considered to be Par 3? The 800ft hole I played at worlds was counted as par 3...:?
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Postby williethekid » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:32 pm

unfortunately that seems to be grandfathered for ease of score counting, but if you throw 3 better than average shots to get there, then its a par 4. Also I think chuck kennedy talks about perfect 33% distribution, of 33% birdies, 33% pars, 33% bogies or worse, if there is 0-5% birdies maybe the par is off.
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Postby Fritz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:34 pm

williethekid wrote:unfortunately that seems to be grandfathered for ease of score counting, but if you throw 3 better than average shots to get there, then its a par 4. Also I think chuck kennedy talks about perfect 33% distribution, of 33% birdies, 33% pars, 33% bogies or worse, if there is 0-5% birdies maybe the par is off.


I completely agree and I think Disc Golf is to a crossing point where they need to develop a better Par system. Cause I'm sorry a 800ft hole is NOT a par 3.
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Postby Chuck Kennedy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:41 pm

Where was that 800 ft par 3? It certainly wasn't Highbridge nor the previous Pro Worlds back to Michigan. I've been involved in helping Worlds TDs set proper pars the past several years. Milwaukee doesn't have an 800 ft hole and Tulsa had par 4s. You talking maybe Flagstaff? That 800 ft hole was a par 3, tough but reachable such as Elaine King's ace run on video.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:42 pm

Doesn't the course rating take all of this into consideration?
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Postby Chuck Kennedy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:51 pm

Course stats are only a guide for par and so far only a small percentage of course designers and TDs are using them to help set par (or care). The good news is it's increasing due to pressure from players and more discussions about par. Even using stats, we're OK with TDs calling a hole a tough par 3 versus easy par 4 when the stats show the scoring average in the 3.3 to 3.6 neighborhood. But many don't have stats yet nor take the time to calculate the stats when they have them available.
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Postby garublador » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:01 pm

My biggest one is having holes play through parts of the park that are heavily used by non disc golfers. I also dislike it when there are places where an error gives you a high chance of losing a disc. It makes sense to punish my socre if I make a mistake, it doesn't make sense to punish my wallet.

The courses where it's not obvious where you go next are annoying, but I'd call that a maintainence issue rather than a design issue. I also don't get annoyed when a hole is "called" a different par than it probably really is. I don't see why that makes a bit of difference when it comes to course design. Now if a hole's scoring spread is really narrow (easy to get a 3, really hard to get a 2, very few 4s) then that's different. That's a boring hole unless there's something inherently fun about it (e.g. a long, steep downhill drive).
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Postby MTB » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 pm

I also don't like super long open holes or ones that force you to play it one way.

A good hole needs to engage the mind as well as the body.

Holes with many options / stratigies are fun to play over and over, while others become non mentaly engaging and boring.
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Postby Fritz » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:37 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:Where was that 800 ft par 3? It certainly wasn't Highbridge nor the previous Pro Worlds back to Michigan. I've been involved in helping Worlds TDs set proper pars the past several years. Milwaukee doesn't have an 800 ft hole and Tulsa had par 4s. You talking maybe Flagstaff? That 800 ft hole was a par 3, tough but reachable such as Elaine King's ace run on video.


Hole #7 Brown Deer, The book listed it as 789' I just rounded up to 800 cause there was some uphill action on the hole. You had to have a really good second drive to even get close to making a 3. Hole 9 was something like 663' on Brown Deer as well.
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