IMO, improving beyond that will be very difficult without a slower control driver. The DX Gazelle, D Cyclone and DX Eagle-X are my favorites for this. The Teebird is an excellent driver, but IMO not as great of a learning tool. Once you have it down you won't find anything with the same combination of control, straight flight and distance, but getting to that point is easier with other discs.j_mardis wrote:My average d is 380-400 (destroyer/wraith) and I drive with putters quite often (sometimes not often enough).
If you have any Rocs I'd recommend making them work. If you don't want to use them after you've gotten so they work for you that's fine, but if you can't throw a Roc it's definitely you, not the disc.I don't like rocs - they just don't feel good in my hand/on release. I have been playing 3 disc rounds with a champ tbird, dx roc, and a dx aviar. I don't think I want to add the tbird or roc to my bag.
There is a lot about line shaping and nose angle that is difficult to impossible to learn with discs that are too fast or too slow (the slow discs aren't sensitive enough and the fast ones are too sensitive). If you throw your mid with not enough nose down, or a bit nose up, it will still fly well. You can compensate for not enough nose down with fast drivers by imparting OAT. With slower drivers in low end plastic you have to throw nose down to get a good flight. They're also receptive to OAT so you can learn more about controling when and how much in what direction of OAT you are imparting.j_mardis wrote:garublador - Why do you say that improving more is difficult without a *slower* control driver exactly? I have a flat champ 11x teebird that is straight (a little over stable really) and is very stable, quite the same as my champ wraith really, the wraith would skip though.
IMO, the Roc is the ultimate barometer for how well you're throwing. If you can throw a beat Roc on a hyzer, anhyzer or straight for decent mid-type distance, you can throw any midrange. One reason they're pushed is because it reduces the chance of you being dependent on any certain disc. If the Roc flies well you're doing it right.I have tried rocs, not for an extended period of time though - no more than three weeks or so at one time. I get the disc to 'work' for me, but every time I put it in the bag, it may be that I don't like the dx grip, but mostly that I like lower profile discs. I should try another plastic or break out the ching rocs I have in the box. I am fearful of growing to need a disc and it only to be done away with. I was thinking about it today and it may be the large bead on the bottom of the roc that I don't like. I believe all of my discs I throw are beadless except for the wizard...
A DX Gazelle will turn more (but still be on the overstable side when new), be easier to control and longer than a Champ.j_mardis wrote:garublador - I am going to pick up a new dx gazelle asap. I did throw my buddies champ gazelle last week and it went straight as can be for 330 or so with a little hyzer flip. Would a champ gazelle be the same as the dx for the intended purpose - you did mention slower drivers in low end plastic?
Controlling OAT is how you shape lines, so yeah...keep at it!I am not all the way familiar with OAT yet, but I am working on it.
You're probably fine then. My advice was generic. I find that when someone says they throw 380'-400' that can mean anything from "I actually throw my drivers 300', but use innacurate measurements," to "I've thrown my fastest driver that far on a distance line and actually throw closer to 330'," to "I can comfortably throw fairway drivers that far," to "I throw distance drivers that far and could throw fairway drivers nearly that far if I explored more lines and heights." With the information you're giving you sound like the last one. It's not a bad place to be. I will say that many of us, me included, have felt the same way as you, tried a bunch of mids and ended back on the Roc. So be ready for that next season.I get the roc to work for me on all lines I throw it, hyz/strt/anny, I just don't like the grip I get on the dx and the bead feels awkward in my hand. Would you suggest moving to a different roc mold, or just stick with the cro/squall? BTW, the roc flies great when I throw it, I get 300-340 (depending on how hard it is thrown of course) out of it with what seems like a really slow flight.
Much of the information you're giving helps a lot. Message board distance is really rampant, mostly due to inaccurate hole measurments (apparently I play at one of the worst courses for this according to Blake). I'm not trying to suggest people, or specifically, you are lying about their D, just that it's a difficult thing to accurately report on. Plus, there are people in other categories that I listed above than you that are also reading this thread. I'd rather give overly generic advice that's a bit less helpful than specific advice that might be counterproductive.How can I get you more information on how good I am at line shaping and how my slower discs fly for me? I am pretty comfortable throwing an anny with any disc in my bag, and I love to hyzer flip my aviar/squall/wraith. I finally tried blake's training assignment #1 and I have notes on it if that helps.
My guess would be that you're overlooking the Eagle for that spot. The Gazelle will be shorter. It's probably more a matter of exploring more lines with your fairway drivers. You'll probably find that there's a lot less difference in golf D between those discs than you thought. It's also worth noting that many times DX fairway drivers are significantly easier to throw farther and control distance with than Champ drivers.I still think I am missing something between the wraith and eagle for control driving, or am I overlooking the eagle for that spot? It flies very similar to the gazelle I threw of my buddies.
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