My bag (long post)

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My bag (long post)

Postby rehder » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:41 am

This bagsetup has not changed a whole lot in the last year or so, and it will likely stay like this for the foreseeable future.

2*Wizards (165)
2*Wizards (170+)

1*DX-shark
3*DX-rocs (Ont/SM/Rancho) 173-176
1* Star Ont Roc 175

2*TP-clones (172+)
1*ESP Clone (~174)

2*1.1 Molfs (~170)
1.2 Molf (~170)
1.1 Qolf (174)

2*Pro Wraiths (~170)

1*ESP Force (174)
1*Z Force (170)

1*Z Pred (174)
 
Wizards, all my Wizards are pretty firm, no floppy in there. Putters are 165g, for shorter approaches I have a former putter (165g) that was run over by a car, so it suffered some damage and has since been understable enough to be used for these shorter approaches. (I still think though that the best approach disc within 200' is the Discraft Rattler. When newish it is amazingly neutral, holds all lines very well, can deal with some headwind, and has zero fade, the reason it is not in the bag is to simplify my decision making and improve my throwing technique with the wizard.)
For longer shots I use 170+ Wizards, if conditions call for a (very) stable Wizard I putt in an Evolution (Old style evo, not the new see-through ones, I don’t like those at all.)
 
A handful of Rocs, around 173-177g in weight. Mostly DX (Ontario, SM and Ranchos) Since last Winter I have used a Star Ontario Roc as my overstable hyzer roc, since I didn’t want to crack a KC, and have actually had it in the bag since. I don’t know why people say that these are turnover discs out of the box, because they sure aren't doing that for me. In fact my DX Ontario is sometimes not understable enough for me when I want a throw that absolutely positively has to keep turning right, when given some height. And for that purpose I carry a beat to death DX shark.
Other than that I can only quote Brad Hammock: "If you don’t throw Rocs, pick up a few and crush 'em"
 
Blake was talking up the TP clones, so about 6-9 months ago I decided to get some and to try them out. Tbh. I liked them initially but after a short while, didn’t think they were so hot. I don’t think they do the straight shot real well, so I bought an ESP clone to complement the TP's. The reason why TP clones rock, is that they require very little power to go, and feel very controllable. What they don't like at all is OAT or a headwind. I might throw the ESP if there is a slight headwind (under 5ms/10mph) or a very fresh TP clone. TP clones fly really well with a tailwind. And because they require little power, they are also great for getting out of trouble shots, where you might have a restricted throwing motion.
 
Orion LF's in the different runs and plastics can be used for almost any shot. The base plastic Orion LF 1.1 is slightly understable for players with 380+ of distance; I have two in the bag, one worn in and one pretty new. I use these for right to left shots. The one disadvantage they have in this slot is that they will come back, if given enough height. Say I want a long hyzerflip-turnover that keeps flying to the right. My worn-in TPclone does this shot better, but is obviously not quite as long. I have a 1.2 Molf that used to hyzerflip to straight, but its a little too beat for that spot, unless I throw really cleanly. But I have both 1.1 Solf's and a 1.1 Qolf that will do this shot now. The 1.1 Qolf has probably been in my bag for over a year, but is slightly more stable than the aforementioned discs. It will hold hyzers better and tackle some headwind. If I want to carry a more stable disc than that, I could use the 1.2 Solf or a new 1.1 Qolf or for very stable needs a 1.2 Qolf. I seldom carry these though since I either use the worn-in 1.1 Qolf or disc up to a Pred/Force.
 
Pro-wraiths are my distance drivers (and have been for a pretty long time), I just gave them some competition in the bag, and went out and threw them head to head with some other discs. These were Z/Esp Surge, Champion Wraith, Pro Destroyer and others amongst them Northman and Riot. The thing I miss about them is that I would like them to retain that stableness for a longer period of time. And in general the Pro-wraiths are in my experience the most stable wraith there is. (New at least, I know that you can probably find very stable champ or star wraiths, but you have to know pretty darn well what to look for). Well I was most interested in whether a Z Surge would be able to replace the Wraith. I had two different ones to try out, and one flipped over and the other was too stable, and both where on avg. slightly shorter than the wraith. This was not so surprising with the stable one, since it wouldn’t flip up from a hyzer, but instead hold the angle all the way. But even the one that flipped up and over wasn’t any longer. Pro destroyers aren’t much longer if at all, and aren’t really more stable either, if there was any kind of real headwind I wouldn’t trust the Wraith or the Destroyer, and it’s easier to get consistent shots with the Wraith compared to the Destroyer. So I’m sticking with the Pro Wraith for my general distance driver, one worn in for right-left and one new for straight.
 
My homecourse is very open, to counter this holes are looong. As far as I remember avg. holelength is around 425. And since no place in Denmark is ever more than 77kilometers from the sea, it is pretty often windy. So earlier in the year I got a star-lite Boss to use for the headwind-distance slot or very big skip. It’s a very situational disc and wasn’t used often, well I started looking for a replacement, when I one day threw a good shot (I gave it between 55-75 degrees of hyzer and hit it very cleanly.) I thought it was going to be really long. To make it really short, let me just say that it turned into a roller fairly fast. So I started looking for a replacement, this replacement is an ESP and Z Force. I can’t say a whole lot about them, since it still is a situational disc, and because of that maybe sees 1-2 shots a round, if that. But in test-throw off on a field the Z Force was definitely handling headwind better than the boss.
 
And last but not least is the Z Pred, I have used this particular Pred for a while now (over 2 years), and it’s still very overstable. Used for hard hyzer-shots, and skipshots. Turnover shots into headwinds that I want to come back.
 
Most of the throws I throw are some form of hyzer. If I need to do a right to left shot, I still prefer to throw something understable with hyzer. For me it helps in my shot consistency, and for some reason I find it to be more predictable than throwing anhyzer shots, especially when it’s windy. This is obviously a double-edged sword, since my skill in throwing anhyzers (and flat) is decreased some when I don’t execute these shots, very often. One of the good things that has come about though is that I have learned to throw pretty pure, with very little if not zero OAT. My throwing form has been back and forth over the 400-425 plateau a couple of times this year. (Had a personal best distance throw of 479’ (laser measured) at a distance comp in relatively poor throwing conditions i.e. little wind, cool temps and a slight drizzle)
BTW, there is a completely different feel to throwing (even on shorter shots), when throwing well vs. not hitting it well. I can make a 400’+ shot when not hitting it well, but I can’t do it consistently, and it will feel like a very big effort. When hitting it well, throwing is effortless. It pretty much feels like I use half the energy compared to when I’m not hitting it. And consistency goes up, even on shorter shots.
Z-Pred, Z-Force, Destroyer, (M,S,Q)OLF, Roc, Wizard&VP
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby discspeed » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:45 pm

rehder wrote:Other than that I can only quote Brad Hammock: "If you don’t throw Rocs, pick up a few and crush 'em"
 


Brad was my doubles partner at the Moccasin Lake Open this year (we won 8) ) and he didn't throw any Rocs. He just threw a Star Shark.
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby Billym » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:08 pm

First off, wow your English is amazing. I had no idea you were in Denmark until the middle of your post.

Be careful Ontario Rocs are not very stable and will flip up out of hyzer. I use them as my turnover mid along side my beat DX Rancho Rocs.
Right now I have a Star O, Rancho and Sanny in my bag to see how the compare. The Ontarios are way less stable than the other two. My Star Sanny is actually very stable with only a few tosses.
Destroyer,Sidewinder,Firebird,Eagles,Leopard, Roc, Mako, S Wizard.

Sometimes I wonder why that Frisbee is getting bigger then it hits me.
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby black udder » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:48 pm

good read. Enjoyed reading about what you throw and why :)
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby Jsw » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:33 pm

I've been screaming from the hilltops that there are Ontarios out there that are not "flippy, crappy rocs".

I'm pretty sure like 2 people said that and then everyone else just ran with it and its current DGR sentiment.

I throw Rocs, and I throw them pretty damn well - so I'm not some wimpy arm that can't straighten a Rancho out or something. Maybe my Ontario's a freak because its a tourney stamp, but it started out about as stable as any DX Rancho I've owned. And once it seasoned in it was my favorite Roc in my bag(3 Ranchos, 1 Ontario).

And absolute LASER with tons of glide, just like my Ranchos, except with an even later fade.

Now I've only had one, and like I said it is tourney stamped - so maybe its a freak. But I would for sure try another one out. Mine is nice and domey too.

----

On to your bag. I like it a lot - Don't change anything.
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby Billym » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:54 pm

Never said Ontarios were flippy pieces of crap. They are however less stable than Ranchos and Sannys.
I love my O-Rocs because they turn when thrown flat and are straight when flipped up from hyzer.
But I have seen them flip over from hyzer when they hit a strong side/head wind and I never use them for strong hyzers or hyzer finishes.
I use O-Rocs as supplements to my seasoned to beat DX Ranchos.
Destroyer,Sidewinder,Firebird,Eagles,Leopard, Roc, Mako, S Wizard.

Sometimes I wonder why that Frisbee is getting bigger then it hits me.
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby Jsw » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:57 pm

Billym wrote:Never said Ontarios were flippy pieces of crap. They are however less stable than Ranchos and Sannys.
I love my O-Rocs because they turn when thrown flat and are straight when flipped up from hyzer.
But I have seen them flip over from hyzer when they hit a strong side/head wind and I never use them for strong hyzers or hyzer finishes.
I use O-Rocs as supplements to my seasoned to beat DX Ranchos.


I'm not singling you out. I'm just adding my two cents. I think DGR in general thinks O-rocs are flippy crap
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby rehder » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:26 am

No doubt, Im not using a DX ontario for the hyzer shots, but I find the star ontario's to be pretty darn stable. Granted I have never thrown one alongside a Champion/Star Rancho, but this wont happen either, because Im not willing to pay that much for a disc I throw. I could probably just as well use a normal DX Rancho.

On the Hammock quote, its on the 03 worlds dvd, so obviously some time ago :wink:
Z-Pred, Z-Force, Destroyer, (M,S,Q)OLF, Roc, Wizard&VP
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Re: My bag (long post)

Postby rehder » Fri May 07, 2010 1:30 pm

so little change to the bag. I have changed a couple of the OLF's. But still basically the concept is still the same. ESP force is out, it wasnt particularly stable, but didnt really have good glide either. Just put a Nuke in the bag, and cant say anything conclusive yet, the throws ive had so far, made my wraiths look slow and antiquated, but as I have said in the Nuke thread, its pretty squirrely. So it will probably only be used if the risk of getting in trouble is low, or if I need to push on a hole. But I will have to see how it goes over the next couple of weeks.

Some wizards
A handful of rocs
2 * TP clones (understable & versatile) 1 ESP clone (hyzers)
worn in DX Valk (big rollers, r-l that has to keep turning)
handful of OLF's in different stages of stability
2 * Pro Wraith (stable D)
Z Force (domey) (Headwind D)
Nuke (boom)
Z Pred (overstable)
Z-Pred, Z-Force, Destroyer, (M,S,Q)OLF, Roc, Wizard&VP
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Rehders bag

Postby rehder » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:45 pm

So figured I'd do an update.

Almost no changes since last time.

165g wizards for putting and short upshots
Med 172+ wizards
VP for utility

Rocs

TP cyclone & ESP cyclone

Orion LF (everything from roller to very stable)

Destroyers pro and stars
Nuke esp and z

Z forces

Z pred
Z-Pred, Z-Force, Destroyer, (M,S,Q)OLF, Roc, Wizard&VP
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