Bash my Bag

[jenb]

Putter: Soft Magnet

Scooby/Rescue Driver: Sirius Polaris LS 175

Overhead/Rescue Driver: DX Leopard 166 on the way

Tight lies Driver (<250ft) : Star Teebird 175

Midrange Drivers (180ft-250ft): Champion Viking 175; Star Valkrye 175; Star Sidewinder 175; Star Roadrunner 175

Long Range Drivers (230ft-280ft for SL and Wraith): Star SL 174; Pro Wraith 175; and DX Destroyer 165 (Destroyer on the way)

Notes: I've been using my Sidewinder as my roller. I almost consider the Valk and Teebird to be redundant, but I am new to the Teebird and found I really missed my Valk on second shots where there is room to hyzer in. The Valk was my first driver and I am much more comfortable using it on hyzer approach shots to layup by the basket. I used to carry a Firebird, but I almost never find myself needing to turn that hard and short. I hope the Destroyer extends my range past 300ft.

Seems to me this is a lot of discs to carry, and I should try and cut my bag down to save my back. Ken Climo says 7-8 discs are needed: a long range hyzer driver, a long range turnover, medium range hyzer, flat, and turnover drivers, plus your short range discs and a roller. I'm not sure what to get rid of. I'm thinking I might drop the Polaris if the Leopard fills the need, and the SL (which is kind of new) is hyzering so hard I never find a use for it, so maybe I will drop it and use the Wraith and Destroyer. I have no idea what to use as a long range turnover driver, unless I can get the DX Destroyer to turn over. I guess most of you would consider the Roadrunner and Sidewinder to be the log range turnovers, but they are just mid range for me. It's strange that I can get these discs (except the SL so far) to do their appropriate flight pattern, but not get the advertised distance.

[BLURR]

I would clean up the Tightlies, Midrange Drivers and Long Range Drivers section. I would mix and match those three areas. You have seven disc's in those three groups that do create some overlap amongst them all. You could easily pair it down to 3-4 out of those two groups. Also, I would look at adding in an actual midrange disc(roc, buzzz, gremlin, scout, warrior, hornet,etc.).

[jenb]

Ok, if I paired it down to Teebird, Viking, Valk, Sidewinder, and Wraith, which one or two of those do you think is redundant?

[BLURR]

For your distances that you posted, the teebird and viking would probably be overlap.

If I were to pick 3-4 out of those three categories, it would be the following: Wraith, Valk, Teebird and either Roadrunner or Sidwinder. That should cover just about every stability that you would need and distance too.

[Monocacy]

Ihasdisc, you are on the right track by limiting the number of different discs that you carry. I strongly suggest reading Blake’s article on Disc Selection Overlap (link below). It explains the different types of discs that you should carry, and makes a strong case for why using fewer discs helps you to master each disc and improve your skills.
http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/discoverlap.shtml

Ok, if I paired it down to Teebird, Viking, Valk, Sidewinder, and Wraith, which one or two of those do you think is redundant?

Teebird is a stable fairway driver, whereas Viking, Valk, and Sidewinder are all understable distance drivers. Wraiths are probably most useful for folks throwing 350+, and Destroyers for people throwing 400+.

For specific suggestions, how about this:

Stable fairway driver: Teebird. DX flies farther than Star, and beats in to an incredible straight flier. You can keep the Star Teebird as your headwind disc.

Understable fairway driver: Leopard. Teebird and Leopard is a classic fairway driver combo

Distance driver: Valkyrie or Sidewinder, pick one. If you want to try a 150-gram disc, distance driver is a good place to do so.

Most folks find a super-overstable driver to be very useful for overheads and get out of trouble shots. I suggest a Banshee, which is a little more manageable than a Firebird.

You did not list any midranges, so I suggest adding a Z Buzzz or DX Rancho Roc (stable), and perhaps a Comet or Fuse (understable). Midranges are incredibly useful in the woods.

I will offer one other gentle suggestion: Look up Joe’s Universal Flight Chart (link below), find the “Power Requirement” on the left side, and limit yourself to discs in your power range (probably 3 and below for the most part). Discs that are comfortably in your power range are more controllable and reward good form. “Faster” discs do not necessarily go farther, but throwing discs that are “too fast” promotes poor form. Once learned, poor form is very hard to unlearn (ask me how I know this).
http://www.gottagogottathrow.com/discgolf/pdf/JoesFlightChart1.pdf

One last thing: On a 1,000’ hole, a person who throws 270’ should lose no more than one stroke to a person who throws 400’, assuming that both players are equally accurate. I’m not knocking extra distance, but improving your putts and approaches will save you way more strokes than driving an extra 30 feet. If you can make all of your putts within 20’, you only need to hit a 40’ circle on your drive or approach shot. Good putting inspires confidence and makes the rest of your game better.

I hope you find at least some of this helpful. Good luck!

[jenb]

Much appreciated.

I know I have a DX Rancho Roc with a X-Mas stamp in my collection, so I will dig it out and see what I can do with it. It used to be my rescue and approach disc, along with a wolf, but I started using the polaris and ditched them in favor of more drivers. I will dig it out and see how it drives. I don't even recall ever throwing it full out. I have no idea how far it will go for me.

I think if I order a DX teebird, I will have everything on your list. I know I have a 150 class Valk somewhere that I had trouble throwing early on, but it is Champion plastic. hmmmm OK I just ordered a 165 DXTeebird and a 150 DX Valkyrie.

That will give me:

soft magnet
dx ranchero roc
dx leopard 165
dx teebird 165
dx valkyrie 150

What else should I have in my bag? The comet or fuse? The river? I'm tempted to keep using the pro wraith because it is the only disc I have that goes 280 consistently and it handles wind well, but I do have trouble controlling it, especially if calm wind. I also have a fear of being without my star valk 175, since I can usually make it go where I want, it makes a good hyzer disc, and it handles wind fairly well. What should I use for a roller? The dx valk?

[Monocacy]

Much appreciated.

No problem

I know I have a DX Rancho Roc with a X-Mas stamp in my collection, so I will dig it out and see what I can do with it. It used to be my rescue and approach disc, along with a wolf, but I started using the polaris and ditched them in favor of more drivers. I will dig it out and see how it drives. I don't even recall ever throwing it full out. I have no idea how far it will go for me.

Rocs can go far, although they do need to be thrown cleanly. I often get as much distance from a Roc (especially thrown on a flex line) as from my fairway drivers.

A friend of mine can do amazing things with a Wolf. If you already have one, you could try that as your understable midrange. Probably need to throw it with a good bit of hyzer.

I think if I order a DX teebird, I will have everything on your list. I know I have a 150 class Valk somewhere that I had trouble throwing early on. However, the Valk is only offerred now in Champ and Star plastic. Should I try and get a DX or Pro Sidewinder in 150 class?

Sorry, I was unclear. DX Teebirds are the bomb, but for faster drivers like a Valk or Sidewinder DX beats up and gets flippy very quickly. Star or Champ is fine for Valks and Sidewinders.

[Monocacy]

That will give me:

soft magnet
dx ranchero roc
dx leopard 165
dx teebird 165
dx valkyrie 150

What else should I have in my bag? The river? I'm tempted to keep using the pro wraith because it is the only disc I have that goes 280 consistently and it handles wind well, but I do have trouble controlling it, especially if calm wind. I also have a fear of being without my star valk 175, since I can usually make it go where I want, it makes a good hyzer disc, and it handles wind fairly well. What should I use for a roller? The dx valk?

Crap, I hit post before I was done typing.

Other than missing a super-overstable disc, that should be a very solid lineup.

River is an outstanding disc, see how it flies for you. It should fit between your Teebird and Leopard nicely, and with its glide, may overlap with the Valkyrie.

Nothing wrong with carrying a heavier Valk, but you might have difficulty switching between 150 and 175 weights. Star Teebird should handle most headwinds, but really strong headwinds is why you need a super-overstable disc like a Banshee.

Valk or Leopard should be excellent roller discs.

[jenb]

So the Banshee takes the place of the comet or fuse?

I have been using my viking for BHRH downhill shots, the sidewinder for BH uphill shots, and the roadrunner for BHRH anhyzered over the top shots that glide out. I take it I can turn to the Banshee for the downhill shots and the DX Teebird for anhyzering uphill and over the top shots now?

[Monocacy]

So the Banshee takes the place of the comet or fuse?

No, Banshee is very overstable, like a Firebird. Use it for strong headwinds, spike hyzers, tomahawks, thumbers, forehand rollers, and RHBH drives that need to finish with a hard left fade.

I have been using my viking for BHRH downhill shots, the sidewinder for BH uphill shots, and the roadrunner for BHRH anhyzered over the top shots that glide out. I take it I can turn to the Banshee for the downhill shots and the DX Teebird for anhyzering uphill and over the top shots now?

Not the Banshee. I like throwing something understable like a Leopard or Sidewinder uphill. Downhill, it depends on the shot, but slower discs like a Roc or Leopard will glide a long ways before they slow down enough to hyzer out. Stable putters can fly a really long way downhill, too.

Leopards are great for anhyzers or turnovers. Teebirds are pretty stable until they get beat up, so they tend to fight their way out of an anhyzer. To choose a downhill disc, find a nice hill, climb to the top, huck everything in your bag, and see what works best.

[jenb]

Thanks again. I think I'm starting to understand better.

I dug a 180 DX Roc out of the trunk of my car, along with a 154 Champ Valk and 167 Champ Valk. Should I go with a lighter weight Roc? The Banshee and Leopard I ordered are 165. Should I get the same weight Roc or stick with heavier midrange discs?

The 154 Valk has a really flat top. It actually looks kind of concave. It was my first driver about 6 years ago. Somebody told me they changed the Valk mold, and the new ones have more of a dome, so I might find the old valk flies more like a sidewinder. Is there anything to that?

So I think my bag at this point is shaping up to be:

Soft Magnet (putt and approach)
180 DX Rancho Roc (stable midrange driver and downhills)
??? Comet or Fuse (understable midrange driver and uphills)
165 DX Banshee (fairway/midrange hyzers, fairway/midrange wind driver, shorter overheads, forehand rollers)
165 DX Leopard (understable fairway driver, uphills, longer overheads)
165 DX Teebird (stable fairway driver)
165 Opto River (calm weather distance disc)
154 Champ Valkyrie (understable distance driver, roller)

I took the star teebird out under the assumption that the banshee can be the fairway wind driver. Does that work?

Is the Opto River basically overlapping with the DX Leopard, or it it much longer distance driver?

I found this "universal disc golf flight guide," http://morleyfielddgc.files.wordpress.c ... 090810.pdf so I think I see where the comet or fuse fits into the equation.

I think the main question is, what weight should I consider for the Roc, and Comet/Fuse? Also, what kind of plastic should I get in the Comet (Elite X? Elite Z?) or Fuse (Gold? Opto?)?

[Monocacy]

I dug a 180 DX Roc out of the trunk of my car, along with a 154 Champ Valk and 167 Champ Valk. Should I go with a lighter weight Roc? The Banshee and Leopard I ordered are 165. Should I get the same weight Roc or stick with heavier midrange discs?

You may need to experiment to see what weight works best for you. The nice thing about DX Rocs is that each experiment only sets you back seven bucks.

The 154 Valk has a really flat top. It actually looks kind of concave. It was my first driver about 6 years ago. Somebody told me they changed the Valk mold, and the new ones have more of a dome, so I might find the old valk flies more like a sidewinder. Is there anything to that?

First I've heard of that.

So I think my bag at this point is shaping up to be:

Soft Magnet (putt and approach)
180 DX Rancho Roc (stable midrange driver and downhills)
??? Comet or Fuse (understable midrange driver and uphills)
165 DX Banshee (fairway/midrange hyzers, fairway/midrange wind driver, shorter overheads, forehand rollers)
165 DX Leopard (understable fairway driver, uphills, longer overheads)
165 DX Teebird (stable fairway driver)
165 Opto River (calm weather distance disc)
154 Champ Valkyrie (understable distance driver, roller)

Looks solid!

I took the star teebird out under the assumption that the banshee can be the fairway wind driver. Does that work?

That should work.

Is the Opto River basically overlapping with the DX Leopard, or it it much longer distance driver?

Rivers seem to vary. Some find the lighter Rivers Leopard-like; others find the River more like a Valk. There is only one sure way to find out how they fly for you. The River is between the Leopard and Valk in speed, but it has a lot of glide so it may rival the Valk in distance. Leopards have great glide, too, and can go really far if thrown right.

I think the main question is, what weight should I consider for the Roc, and Comet/Fuse? Also, what kind of plastic should I get in the Comet (Elite X? Elite Z?) or Fuse (Gold? Opto?)?

Get a few Rocs in a range of weights and see what works best for you. Once you find a weight that you like, you may want to keep all of your midranges around the same weight. Eliminates a variable, right?

Z Comet will maintain its stability longer, so I suggest starting with Z rather than X. Opto and Gold Fuses fly pretty similarly. For me, the Z Comet, Opto Fuse, and GL Fuse were interchangeable. I chose Comets because I prefer the grip, but others prefer the Fuse.

So, have I given you enough excuses to buy new plastic?

[jenb]

So, have I given you enough excuses to buy new plastic?

Yes. Gotta Go Gotta Throw has you to thank for the sale of 7 discs today. I wish I'd ordered them as one order though, instead of 3 different order. It's 6 dollars shipping per order.

I doubt they will arrive before the tournament this weekend, but I probably ought not to change my bag drastically mere days before a tournament.

[JR]

From what i've heard and experienced Gold Line Rivers seem to be worse than Optos. Opto is sweet. And at your power it may be shorter or longer than the Valks. Only a shoot out will tell. At my power 400'+ with warp speed discs on a great rip River is shorter than the Valk. The glide on the River makes it do different things than a Valk even if both were equally long for you. Valk gets there more with speed and River with the ability to maintain height. You'll see the differences once you throw down and uphill and under or over obstacles.

Leopards, Rivers, Valkyries and Teebirds all are good discs and you need to do a shoot out with each of them present on a field and on courses. If you can throw each of them on every drive it will tell you a lot. Then you can make an informed decision about bag selection.

[money 21]

from what you have discribed I would sujest a
150 dx vaulk could replace your rr and sidewinder
150 proline vaulk and champ could cover the stable spots
a start teebird and a champ teebird would cover the overstable stuff
i would also suggest a z buzz ss and a z hornet in the high 160's