Bash my New Bag

[jenb]

After getting more familiar with the Roc, I'm finding I get darn near as much distance with it as my leopard, teebird, etc. And I can get it there with more consistent accuracy without hurting myself trying to rip it. That, and my rounds I've played lately limited to putter, roc, and whippet lowered my scores a lot. So I've decided to disc down even further.

Present Bag:
175 Star Aviar Driver
170 DX Rancho Roc
165 DX Whippet
165 DX Banshee
165 DX Teebird
165 DX Leopard
165 DX Stingray

New Bag:
175 Birdie
175 Star Aviar Driver
175 Classic Aviar
170 DX Rancho Roc
165 DX Whippet
165 DX Stingray

I think that still covers all the bases. I'm considering raising the weight on my stingray and whippet to 170 to match the roc, but I have the 165s already. The whippet is fine at 165 for BH and flick hyzers, plus overheads. But I am having problems keeping my stingray from turning into a roller. Would 5 grams make a big enough difference to worry about?

[JR]

I'd think that you'd need to go to 175 with the Stingray to gain really in dependability. Now you know why this site often suggest old school and minimal bags. Considering the weights and lowering scores i'd also try lighter Rocs to see at which weight they lose predictability and how much more distance you gain with it. Roc and putter distance determines the majority of your score on most courses.

[jenb]

Innova's chart says that the roc is supposed to be one of the most stable disc innova produces in a midrange. However, I find the roc typically behaving a little bit understable at high speed, and I don't find that it handles a stiff headwind well. Maybe I an already having predictability issues at 170?

I plan to look at the star mako as a possible addition, due to its rep for straight flight out of the box and extra glide.

[victorb]

Innova's chart says that the roc is supposed to be one of the most stable disc innova produces in a midrange. However, I find the roc typically behaving a little bit understable at high speed, and I don't find that it handles a stiff headwind well. Maybe I an already having predictability issues at 170?

I plan to look at the star mako as a possible addition, due to its rep for straight flight out of the box and extra glide.

If anything, it's form issues that are causing your roc to turn at high speeds. I know, people hate hearing it, but it's virtually always true. A DX Roc will wear out it's fade first, and it takes a LOT of beating to truly turn at high speeds if your form is clean.

you could add in a KC Pro Roc as your DX beats in a little to have a midrange driver with some fade to it.

[emiller3]

I remember Blake saying that a brand new Roc is like a 6-month seasoned max weight Roc...I assumed he was talking about a few rounds a week. I throw 168-172 Rocs because I'm at high altitude, and when I go down to sea-level even the fresh ones will flip up, and the lightly seasoned ones will flip over but come back quickly. That's at around 350', I don't know how far you're throwing them.

All that to say that it's possible that your form is clean and you need to move up in weights. But victorb is right, usually when people complain about Rocs flipping, it's a form issue. Moving up in weight would just mask that form problem. Can you hyzer flip the Roc to flat? Can you get a hyzer flip s-curve out of the Stingray? If so, then it's probably time to move up in weights. If not, then you're probably applying torque when throwing flat and it's causing them to turn more then they should.

And yes, 5 grams will make a difference.

[jenb]

I was able to more or less make the roc dance yesterday on rhbh throws. I made a change in my grip so it's not as "strong" and I stopped trying to throw it 100%, and it started releasing smoothly sailing out fairly flat. I could make it turn either way or go flat out to about 250, though it sometimes went a little bit more right than I wanted. I did not throw the stingray with that grip yet so we'll see.

The change I made in the grip is that I am not turning the fingertips into and against the rim and pulling the groove of the rim up into my palm. I'm letting the groove of the rim rest in the crease of my fingers at the outermost joint. The result is a 4 finger grip where the pinky is inside the rim, but not touching the flight plate, and the edge of the disc is still pulled bewteen the cheeks of my palm. So basically, I'm not curling the fingers back tightly so that the fingernails are perpendicular to the plane of the palm. Instead, the fingernails are parallel to the plane of the palm.

It's still a securely gripped disc, but the release seems much smoother, and the disc doesn't seem to suffer from oat. I don't know if the strong grip is more difficult to do "properly" with smaller hands, but mine are not large, and I can't say that the strong grip is comfortable for me. I wonder what the smaller pro ladies do for grip?

[JR]

I would imagine clip their finger nails.