FTT's (slower) bag project

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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby fanter » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:17 am

My bag is currently set up in a similar fashion. Valkyrie is my max D driver. I push it out to 400' pretty easily. I really only need one, but sometimes I carry two (or three if I just really want to throw multiple shots). My favorite is a current run 167g Champ. Having thrown a PD or two, I can attest that a (worn) PD: turns later, fades less than a Valkyrie. Also, I think you might experience some overlap between the Leopard and the Buzzz since the Buzzz is so long.

Regardless, I think you'll find success if you stick with this idea. It has helped my game immensely.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:03 am

MDP wrote:Valk is less HSS (more turn) and more LSS (more fade) than a P PD.


Thanks for the link to the flight chart. That definitely helps.

fanter wrote:My bag is currently set up in a similar fashion. Valkyrie is my max D driver. I push it out to 400' pretty easily. I really only need one, but sometimes I carry two (or three if I just really want to throw multiple shots). My favorite is a current run 167g Champ. Having thrown a PD or two, I can attest that a (worn) PD: turns later, fades less than a Valkyrie. Also, I think you might experience some overlap between the Leopard and the Buzzz since the Buzzz is so long.

Regardless, I think you'll find success if you stick with this idea. It has helped my game immensely.


What do you like about Champ vs. Star with the Valk? And with the Leopard/Buzzz combo, do you think the line-shaping ability of the Leo would make it worth having in the bag? Say for instance I need to drive uphill or want to do a little hyzer flip around a tree. Would you say a Leo is worth having in those situations?

I might hang on to my seasoned P PD and compare it to a Star Valk when I get it.

Next, and most important, question: what color discs should I get? :shock:
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:11 am

if you are going to stick to slower drivers then yes, the valk is not going to be as controllable as your eagles. eagles are a great place to start, and just a few molds can cover all of the necassary shots. as for mids, it seems like you are set, and throwing them pretty well.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:01 am

Hyzerline49 wrote:if you are going to stick to slower drivers then yes, the valk is not going to be as controllable as your eagles. eagles are a great place to start, and just a few molds can cover all of the necassary shots. as for mids, it seems like you are set, and throwing them pretty well.


I think this is what I hear you saying - Just stick to a lighter EX as my distance driver until I can push it past a certain distance. Am I right? If so, what would you say is a good distance goal for me to reach with an EX before stepping up to something like a Valk?
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby keltik » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:24 pm

I was more suggesting a pro or DX Leo. I'm not as familiar with Star Leopards. If you want to just stick with the Eagle mold you could search for DX ELs. Try the Leopard or the X XL. you may like them and if you don't you can trade them away.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby fanter » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:08 pm

Fightingthetide wrote: What do you like about Champ vs. Star with the Valk? And with the Leopard/Buzzz combo, do you think the line-shaping ability of the Leo would make it worth having in the bag? Say for instance I need to drive uphill or want to do a little hyzer flip around a tree. Would you say a Leo is worth having in those situations?

I might hang on to my seasoned P PD and compare it to a Star Valk when I get it.


Star Valkyries (in my experience) start out with less HSS than Champion. I get a much wider S with the Stars, whereas I can flip a Champ to a much tighter line with minimal left/right action.

After having thrown a Buzzz for a couple years, I have become less enthusiastic about its uses. It's really long for a midrange, and it doesn't perform turnovers well. I was blowing past baskets on laser lines and dropping waaay short on shots that needed a slight left turn (LHBH). I like the Buzzz, but I definitely wouldn't call it a workhorse. It loses altitude very quickly once it turns. I've recently dropped it for a Comet, which does very Buzzz-y things and more, but it requires a little more control on the part of the thrower, and it's shorter. Also, the Millennium MS is another disc that can execute Buzzz lines with a little more to offer in the way of work-ability.

The Leopard is a slower fairway driver, with enough high speed turn that you can power down on it easily for dead straight, Buzzz-like shots, and also work better lines with it. It holds turns, and it's very workable for some hyzer shots. Power up on it for longer flip drives and S curves. It's also a great disc at 150g if you're really looking to finesse it.

I won't argue that you need to drop the Buzzz, because it's great off the tee and you may be very comfortable with it. I finally dropped it as a sort of challenge to work Buzzz lines with other discs. In its absence, I have learned a lot in the way of powering down and finesse.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:44 pm

I'm having trouble nailing down what I should do.

I have a fairly new 172 Star Roadrunner that I might try to use exclusively for max D until I can work up enough power to control a Valkyrie - right now on a flat throw I can get it around 350', but it doesn't seem to fly as understable as I would expect.

Also, I'm trying to think of what combinations of weight and plastic to get for Eagle-X's. Any suggestions? I currently have a 173 Star and a 167 DX, which is starting to season pretty fast.

Anyway, that leaves me with this:

172 Star Roadrunner - distance
175 CFR C PD - very overstable
173 Star EX - overstable
176 DX EX - stable control
165-168 Star Leopard - understable

What I don't like about this is the fact that my DX EX will become flippy and leave me without a stable control driver. I'm not so sure I want to rely on a rotation of DX EX's for that slot. And while my 173 Star might fit that role sometime in the future, right now it shows no signs of high speed turn. I feel like there will be a gap in there, which is why I am thinking about adding a lighter Star EX and Star Leopard to fit the last two roles.

As for mids, I feel really comfortable with my Buzzz's right now - 178 SS and a 178 Z. I have a 180 Hornet and 170 Opto Fuse on each side of them. The low-profile grip is really helping me with consistency. I'll hang on to this lineup for a while now.

Lastly, putters...nothing to change here. Wizards and Magic.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:09 pm

you should try a tl or stalker for the stable control slot as your dx ex becomes flippy
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Mason65 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:02 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:I'm having trouble nailing down what I should do.

I have a fairly new 172 Star Roadrunner that I might try to use exclusively for max D until I can work up enough power to control a Valkyrie - right now on a flat throw I can get it around 350', but it doesn't seem to fly as understable as I would expect.

Also, I'm trying to think of what combinations of weight and plastic to get for Eagle-X's. Any suggestions? I currently have a 173 Star and a 167 DX, which is starting to season pretty fast.

Anyway, that leaves me with this:

172 Star Roadrunner - distance
175 CFR C PD - very overstable
173 Star EX - overstable
176 DX EX - stable control
165-168 Star Leopard - understable

What I don't like about this is the fact that my DX EX will become flippy and leave me without a stable control driver. I'm not so sure I want to rely on a rotation of DX EX's for that slot. And while my 173 Star might fit that role sometime in the future, right now it shows no signs of high speed turn. I feel like there will be a gap in there, which is why I am thinking about adding a lighter Star EX and Star Leopard to fit the last two roles.

As for mids, I feel really comfortable with my Buzzz's right now - 178 SS and a 178 Z. I have a 180 Hornet and 170 Opto Fuse on each side of them. The low-profile grip is really helping me with consistency. I'll hang on to this lineup for a while now.

Lastly, putters...nothing to change here. Wizards and Magic.


Get a stack of DX EX's @ 170g and rotate them, keep the star in as well. Rotate the Leopard out as you get worn EX's.

Are you happy with a C-PD as your meathook? Tried a XXX or Firebird?

The Star RR is a good distance disc for your power level, just know when (not) to throw it. Most of the time having control of your shot (throwing the Eagle) is more important than that extra 10% of distance.

As for the mids, why the Fuse? I realize you're trying to cut down on speed (very commendable) and not necessarily molds, but 4 different mid molds seems a bit excessive.

What do you do differently with your Wizards vs Magic?
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:16 pm

for where he is at, the cfr pd is plenty stable... a xxx or firebird would certainly not be the first choice if he was looking for something more stable however. a pred would be my recommendation. and i like the idea of rotating dx ex's through the bag. it will provide you with so many different stabilities, and therefore shots that you can pull off. if you dont like the idea, you should add a tl for a disc that is very controllable out of the box. that along with your ex's and leopard would be an amazing trio!
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:55 am

Mason65 wrote:Get a stack of DX EX's @ 170g and rotate them, keep the star in as well. Rotate the Leopard out as you get worn EX's.


Sounds like a plan. I'll give it a shot.

Mason65 wrote:Are you happy with a C-PD as your meathook? Tried a XXX or Firebird?


Yes, it's a CFR so it's super flat and stiff. The PLH is higher than my production run C PD. The only time I can get it to land straight in front of me is when I throw it with a hard anhyzer and tons of OAT :shock: otherwise it starts to fade super early. For that reason, I really don't use it for backhand shots, only a few niche forehand shots and mostly overhand.

Mason65 wrote:The Star RR is a good distance disc for your power level, just know when (not) to throw it. Most of the time having control of your shot (throwing the Eagle) is more important than that extra 10% of distance.


My problem with it so far is that it is actually pretty stable. Even at 350' of power and decent snap, it doesn't really seem like -4 HSS. When I give it a touch of anhyzer (just a little touch), it goes soooo far to the right. I can't seem to nail down a good L-R movement with it. Anyway, I probably just need to beat it in a bit more, or pick up a lighter, domier one.

Mason65 wrote:As for the mids, why the Fuse? I realize you're trying to cut down on speed (very commendable) and not necessarily molds, but 4 different mid molds seems a bit excessive.


I know others throw 2 molds, and I would love to get to that point. I might end up dropping the Hornet (which I have yet to throw...it arrived in the mail yesterday) in favor of powering down on an EX, and add in an X Buzzz and GL Fuse, sticking to those two molds.

As for the Fuse, I wanted a mid that I could power down and still get a straight line, or power up and get a nice turning shot. It also is amazing at a standstill sky-anhyzer from the fairway.

And in reality, I see that I have 3 molds - Hornet, Buzzz, Fuse. The only difference between the Buzzz and Buzzz SS (as I am sure you know) is the slanted rim vs. concave rim. Since you don't really feel that part in your grip, they feel the same, so I see it as one mold. Also, the Fuse feels incredibly similar in the hand, minus the dome.

Anyway, I see what you are saying, but I tried throwing a dx roc with the hope of rotating them in different stages of wear, but the bead on the rim kept giving me trouble. Thus, I switched the Buzzz, and my game has noticeably improved. Adding the Hornet and Fuse only seemed logical so I could cover a range of shots in that range.

Mason65 wrote:What do you do differently with your Wizards vs Magic?


Great question. In reality, I am still trying to figure that out. I recently picked up 3 Medium Wiz's and 1 SSS Wiz, along with 1 SS Magic. I use the SSS Wiz for putting (it's not really SSS, feels more like SS). I am learning to drive with the M Wiz's - flat, hyzer, and anhyzer - and I am also learning to use them for approach shots under 150'. I keep one M Wiz in my bag, and the other two for rotation and field practice.

As for the Magic, I am not as comfortable with it, but it does fly a lot straighter for me. I'm wanting to learn how to use it for turnover drives <150-200' until one of my M Wiz's beats in. So really, its like the Leopard that I might get - it will only hold a temporary spot until something else breaks in to replace it.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:53 pm

A few updates:

-I can't get a handle on my Magic. It's too touchy for me right now. Sticking with Wizards for all putting duties - drive, approach, putt.
-I'm dropping the Hornet from my mids. Powering down on a fairway driver instead. Sold it today at my league.
-I'm going to drop Eagle's and pick up a Teebird / TL / Leopard combo. Eagle's are great, but I have only been using them for two weeks (since I decided to first pursue slowing down my bag). So while I said I was comfortable with them, I was not in love with them. What I learned is that they love to fade really hard on me. I realize that a new Star Teebird will probably be no different, but I figured I would retain consistency if I pick up a TB and a TL...and leo.

Does anyone know if a max weight champ TB would it the overstable slot well? I figure it would, but I heard some reviews that some champ TB's weren't as beefy as expected. I would put it in-between my CFR C PD and a 170ish Star TB.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:39 pm

if you have a tl, you really dont need a leopard. or other way around.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby keltik » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:04 pm

well since you say the Eagle fades too hard for you then I suggest the Cyclone. It's very slow but it has good distance potential and can shape lines with ease. I'm actually starting to miss the Cyclone from my bag. A similar disc is the Cheetah. Try a set of Leopards in different plastics and see what that does for you.

and after rereading your OP I think the Cyclone or Leopard will be your best option. and since you said you didn't want rare or OP discs then that kinda rules out the Cyclone since the good ones are Tourney Pro. Go with the Leopard.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:17 pm

A word of warning about the Cyclone: Some ESP ones are stupid overstable no glide bricks. Haven't tried to break in mine. Some TP Cyclones appear fine and are rollers. Mine are. An ace with half of my TP Cyclones does not change the facts or my view. They may work for max D lines at stupid apex heights though. The ESP and the TPs are like mirrors of each other i have no happy medium and am not in a hurry to find one because of other discs. Gazelle exists and so do Leos.
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