FTT's (slower) bag project

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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:45 pm

Crosseyed, let me know what you think about that combo.


Now the question for my bag is whether to add a Leopard to replace the River. Since my Rver needs a full rip to fly understable, I'm wondering if a lighter Star Leo would fit better...assuming I get a few months to season it well so it actually flies understable.

I think I'm closer to my original intention. Hearing other's thoughts on high speed drivers helped me stay away from them for now. I MIGHT pick up a lighter Star Valk in the near future for a distance driver, but for now I'll aim at getting some lighter DX Teebirds.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:24 pm

Leos have lower power requirement and are slower so win win for you and you don't even need to go under max weight necessarily. Leo is so straight. In fact max weight will add wind resistance and repeatability.

The TB needs way more power than a Valk even after beating in. And even then is way shorter weight for weight although at 150 the TB is more forgiving to powering down and handles some winds unlike the Valk at 150.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:22 am

JR wrote:Leos have lower power requirement and are slower so win win for you and you don't even need to go under max weight necessarily. Leo is so straight. In fact max weight will add wind resistance and repeatability.

The TB needs way more power than a Valk even after beating in. And even then is way shorter weight for weight although at 150 the TB is more forgiving to powering down and handles some winds unlike the Valk at 150.


Teebird needs more power than a Valk? That's the first time I've heard that, I always thought it was the other way around and have pretty much always thrown teebirds. Never given valks much of a shot honestly...
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:53 am

Yeah, that's news to me...but honestly I have never compared them. I always assumed that a faster disc required more power (unless you are talking about a Firebird compared to a Monarch, etc.)

Anyway, I might pick up a lighter Star Valk (near 165) and a Star Leo (near 175). That leaves me with the following setup (bold is what I don't have):

165-167 Star Valkyrie - distance
175 Champ Banshee - very overstable

170 Champ Teebird - overstable
170 Star Teebird - stable control
173-175 Star Leopard - understable
175 Pro Leopard - fliptastic

177-180 Vector - overstable mid
175-177 Axis
- stable mid
177 GL Fuse (x2) - understable mids

175 M Wizard (x2) - driving/approach, putt
Or maybe Ions... (once I get the above discs set in my bag)
Last edited by Fightingthetide on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:55 am

The myth of the straightness of a TB was cooked up, when it was new way back when. Valk came later and many other better discs have been released since. The Teebird is straight given the correct initial hyzer per wear and plastic of the TB with a fairly strong fade for today. Being two speed numbers slower than the Valk the TB being spin hungry ain't gonna get that far relative to the total distance and the portion of the flight, where the disc starts to fade of the total D, if you compare to the DX Valk. In Champ and especially Star the Valk does fade close to the amount of the TB sideways. Still a Valk will stay horizontal out to a longer distances before the fade. That is the speed at work. If you power down a Valk a little you'll get to TB distance and the amount of fade ain't gonna be that much different. So the straightness of the last part of the flight depends on your D. I throw Valks farther than TBs and the difference varies between the plastic. On average across plastics weight for weight i'd say that Valks are around 20' longer than TBs. In power generation that means more control in your form with the Valk. In flight the TB is better in assured fade and wind tackling. What works for you depends on your speed to spin ratio and the conditions you play in and the rest of your bag.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:44 pm

What you posted makes sense in terms of the physics behind TB's and Valks. My only problem with a Pro or DX Valk would be how squirelly it will get after a few good hits on a tree or rocks.

The goal of slowing down my bag was to learn better throwing mechanics by throwing slower drivers - for example, my goal is to throw Teebirds to 400' and gain accuracy on shorter (<350') drives. So my question is whether a Valk would be too much right now, and/or if it would hinder me in this process? Currently I can hit just past 350' with my 170 Star TB, and I can see my accuracy improving in rounds...almost where I am very comfortable with a variety of fairways.

My initial guess would be that it wouldn't be too much, assuming a 165ish Star Valk, but I would love to hear thoughts on this.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:08 pm

just stick with the teebird. learning to throw a teebird far will teach you more than a valk can. just have a variety in your bag, from a stable champ, slighly beat star, and maybe a TL also (that's what i rock). you should be able to handle just about anything on the course with that combo.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:08 pm

Hyzerline49 wrote:just stick with the teebird. learning to throw a teebird far will teach you more than a valk can. just have a variety in your bag, from a stable champ, slighly beat star, and maybe a TL also (that's what i rock). you should be able to handle just about anything on the course with that combo.


Would it be overlap to have a Star TL and Star Leo all in the same bag? Or would the TL act like a more-seasoned TB while the Leo flies understable (eventually)?

Thanks for the tip.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:33 pm

TB is more spin hungry in getting rid of the fade so it's a good learning tool for that. A broken in DX Valk is flippy and as such it's great for OAT elimination and more spin on it helps in minimizing the flip. A TL and Leo combo alone would work great, but adding a TB will make a lot of overlap between those two. TLs with flash can be more LSS than TBs. TL fades more than the Leo so together they are more versatile and the TL takes winds a little better.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:32 am

Well considering I already have two Teebirds in my bag covering two different slots, getting rid of both and adding a TL would mean finding another mold...and I've already ran the gamut on that. If anything, I was wanting to know if there was overlap, and you answered that.

I might grab a lighter Star Valk in the near future if I come across one, but until then I'll keep working with my Star Teebird for max D. I'll also be adding a Banshee and Leopard - I'll report back on the slow bag once I get a feel for it.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:37 am

I think Barry Schultz tends to rock a TL/Leo combo for fairway drivers
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:43 am

Crosseyed0811 wrote:I think Barry Schultz tends to rock a TL/Leo combo for fairway drivers


That may be true. But I'm using "fairway drivers" as "distance drivers" - semantics are fun.

I may still pick up a TL and see how it flies next to a Teebird. Shoot, it may fly like a seasoned Teebird and still FEEL like a Teebird in the hand. That's still one mold in my book.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:17 am

Fightingthetide wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote:I think Barry Schultz tends to rock a TL/Leo combo for fairway drivers


That may be true. But I'm using "fairway drivers" as "distance drivers" - semantics are fun.

I may still pick up a TL and see how it flies next to a Teebird. Shoot, it may fly like a seasoned Teebird and still FEEL like a Teebird in the hand. That's still one mold in my book.


Oh, no I wasn't saying go with the TL/Leo, I was commenting on the overlap issues... Again I'm a Teebird/Leopard thrower myself. From what I understand the TL is just a beat up Teebird, but I've never thrown one myself. Can't say I've ever even picked one up actually, I shall fix that today...
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:44 am

Crosseyed0811 wrote:
Fightingthetide wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote:I think Barry Schultz tends to rock a TL/Leo combo for fairway drivers


That may be true. But I'm using "fairway drivers" as "distance drivers" - semantics are fun.

I may still pick up a TL and see how it flies next to a Teebird. Shoot, it may fly like a seasoned Teebird and still FEEL like a Teebird in the hand. That's still one mold in my book.


Oh, no I wasn't saying go with the TL/Leo, I was commenting on the overlap issues... Again I'm a Teebird/Leopard thrower myself. From what I understand the TL is just a beat up Teebird, but I've never thrown one myself. Can't say I've ever even picked one up actually, I shall fix that today...


You know what else we shall fix? Getting up for a round. Any chance you will come up this way on Saturday? I'll shoot you a PM.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:48 am

Checked out some TL's at lunch today, Its basically the same difference as an Eagle-X and Eagle-L. Don't know why that would surprise anyone though :-P
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