Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

[Crosseyed0811]

So in my case, I've never particularly used "s-curve" discs that much, so would a TD work for a distance disc to go with my Teebird/Leo combo? Or would a Valk still be a better disc for me there? Or would there be room for both the Valk and TD there?

[jubuttib]

I would say that the PD/TD combo is like a faster Teebird/Leopard combo.

This is actually a pretty good way to think of them.

Imagine if the TeeBird and the Eagle had sex and produced a speed 9.5 child. That would be the PD. It combines some of the best properties of both in a faster package. The PD is very workable, takes well to powering up or down on them, and in different plastics, runs and stages of wear can literally handle all your driver needs from windfighting to straight control shots to understable flippers to distance etc. CFR C-PDs are great for controlled throws in the wind, most S-PDs are just plain old great for pretty much everything, P-Lines don't need as much power and depending on the one you get can be like an S-PD with lower power requirement or an S-curve driver or take care of your understable needs. It's a really versatile disc.

The TD is basically a beefier and slightly faster Roadrunner, and while not as versatile as the PD it can do some things the PD doesn't do (the gradual turning helps here). A TD could very well work as a distance disc for you, but it's going to be totally different from the Valkyrie, and the stable ones have a higher power requirement too to really stretch them out.

If you're having trouble throwing discs faster than speed 9 I don't think the PD is a good fit for you, except for overstable duties (won't be as meathooky as the Firebird).

[Crosseyed0811]

Ok, I think I'll just stick with my Valk for a little while longer and see if I get anything I like out of it.. If I get to liking it I may look into getting one in more durable plastic, if not I may give the TD a try... I seem to be getting more and more snap each week so we'll see where it goes...

[jubuttib]

DX Valks and premium Valks are pretty much different discs, and I suggest you look into a Star or Champ one to see how it feels whether or not you like the DX. There's bound to be someone around there who has premium Valks in their bag, see if you can test them sometime.

[Crosseyed0811]

Hmm, I may just pick up an xout, but that may explain why I've never taken to valks, I think the only ones I've ever had are DX plastic... Could be the start of a whole new relationship...

I would guess Star has more glide than Champion?

[fanter]

All of my Valkyries are glidey, Champion and Star alike. In my experience, Champions are more domey (current runs) and Stars only have mild domes, which may explain the similar glide. My favorite is a 167 chartreuse Champion. It flips to flat and flies straight for about 300', turns over only a little (maybe 10' lateral) and fades gently on a 400' throw. It finishes generally straight, but it's fade is easily manipulated by the amount of hyzer I give it (duh). This path is not much different than the PPD I've thrown. They don't feel terribly different in the hand, either.

[Hyzerline49]

I hear that the sl is a nice understable compliment to the pd. I would assume it is similar to the td?

[jubuttib]

I hear that the sl is a nice understable compliment to the pd. I would assume it is similar to the td?

No, it isn't. Much more abrupt in it's movements, much more fade at the end.

[Crosseyed0811]

I hear that the sl is a nice understable compliment to the pd. I would assume it is similar to the td?

The SL is much more LIKE a PD. They have the same factory ratings but different flight characteristics. The SL is not a disc I would consider understable in the slightest and nothing like a TD... I know that Val Jenkins uses Pro Starfires (SL) and Star SL's much like some people around here use PD's. I think she carries like 5, in various stages of wear, to cover most of her drives...

[jubuttib]

The SL is much more LIKE a PD. They have the same factory ratings but different flight characteristics. The SL is not a disc I would consider understable in the slightest and nothing like a TD... I know that Val Jenkins uses Pro Starfires (SL) and Star SL's much like some people around here use PD's. I think she carries like 5, in various stages of wear, to cover most of her drives...

Ummm, the SL has the same ratings as the CD (10, 5, -1, 2), not the PD (10, 4, 0, 3). The FL would be closer to the PD in ratings (10, 3, 0, 2). I actually have had a few SL's and while they were more stable with the flash still on, as soon as that wore off they were definitely moderately understable drivers. Not that far off from the CD now that I come to think of it.

[Crosseyed0811]

The SL is much more LIKE a PD. They have the same factory ratings but different flight characteristics. The SL is not a disc I would consider understable in the slightest and nothing like a TD... I know that Val Jenkins uses Pro Starfires (SL) and Star SL's much like some people around here use PD's. I think she carries like 5, in various stages of wear, to cover most of her drives...

Ummm, the SL has the same ratings as the CD (10, 5, -1, 2), not the PD (10, 4, 0, 3). The FL would be closer to the PD in ratings (10, 3, 0, 2). I actually have had a few SL's and while they were more stable with the flash still on, as soon as that wore off they were definitely moderately understable drivers. Not that far off from the CD now that I come to think of it.

Hmm, I was thinking incorrectly my appologies. I only had one SL and it was pretty beastly stable, but it was also a lake dweller which seems to really modify the disc characteristics at times. I don't think I ever found someone who could turn that one over, but it was a mean FH distance disc for me before I returned it to the lake...

[Crosseyed0811]

Ahh, it was Joes who had similar ratings on the two... Joes lists them the same with the SL having .5 more LSS

[Hyzerline49]

ik what an sl flies like haha... not beastly at all. once beat in, they lose alot of the lss and hold good turns and flip up very well. just my input, didnt expect to start any heated debate.

[Crosseyed0811]

ik what an sl flies like haha... not beastly at all. once beat in, they lose alot of the lss and hold good turns and flip up very well. just my input, didnt expect to start any heated debate.

Who was heated?

I was mistaken on the ratings as I had not looked at them in a while. When I first heard of Discmania I tried to find "equivalent" Innova discs by the ratings so I would have some feel for what they were. This was several years ago and before any started showing up in stores around here. Like the P1 was an aviar obviously, MD1 looked like a Shark from what I was seeing online... I was thinking the CD was close to a Viking though, did they change the rating on the CD? For some reason I thought it was speed 9... anyway, I've only had one SL, and it must have been an anomoly. It was my distance FH disc when I had it, and I couldn't turn it over FH without severe OAT. It went dead straight for a long ways and then faded HARD. Guy who threw WAY farther than me gave it to me. Raked it out of the lake and couldn't throw it and gave it to me when I was experimenting a lot. He couldn't get it to turn over at all either.

Anyway, went and picked up a new Pure today so I'd have more than one, and while I was at PIAS I looked through the used discs and picked up a used Star Valk marked 170... Its got some scuffs and such on it, but its far from trashed.. Plan on getting a few throws in the field on the way home and seeing what I think of it...

[jubuttib]

When I first heard of Discmania I tried to find "equivalent" Innova discs by the ratings so I would have some feel for what they were. This was several years ago and before any started showing up in stores around here. Like the P1 was an aviar obviously, MD1 looked like a Shark from what I was seeing online... I was thinking the CD was close to a Viking though, did they change the rating on the CD? For some reason I thought it was speed 9... anyway, I've only had one SL, and it must have been an anomoly. It was my distance FH disc when I had it, and I couldn't turn it over FH without severe OAT. It went dead straight for a long ways and then faded HARD. Guy who threw WAY farther than me gave it to me. Raked it out of the lake and couldn't throw it and gave it to me when I was experimenting a lot. He couldn't get it to turn over at all either.

Anyway, went and picked up a new Pure today so I'd have more than one, and while I was at PIAS I looked through the used discs and picked up a used Star Valk marked 170... Its got some scuffs and such on it, but its far from trashed.. Plan on getting a few throws in the field on the way home and seeing what I think of it...

I was always wondering about why they rated the MD1 the same as a Shark, its definitely more stable, much more like a Roc. About the CD ratings, I checked Discmania's Finnish store site, because they don't really bother to update old discs that often, and it still had the old 9, 5, -1, 2 ratings. On their new international site it's rated 10, 5, -1, 2. Still, the SL and Viking have the exact same ratings apart from the one step in speed (not that ratings are a useful way to judge discs, since they're often wrong). Yours must have been an anomaly, they definitely aren't meant to be stable. Wouldn't be surprised if it was miss-stamped.

Good job on the Valkyrie, throwing a disc that's already seasoned usually gives you a better picture of what the disc is going to be like to live with.