DP2012 Bag

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DP2012 Bag

Postby NumberTree » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:25 pm

I would like to have you guys give some input on my bag for this year.

I'm 39 - Serious DG 2010-2012; Huckin' Discs off and on for a few years in the 90's.

Putts: -
SS Wizard
M Warlock
Opto Pure - Long Putts/Drives

Mids: -
Z Wasp or Z Hornet - O/S duties
Glow FLX Buzzz - Straight with nice Fade
Barstamp Buzzz - Super Straight
Old Z Buzzz - Slight U/S

Drivers:
Opto XXX
Neutron Volts - 168/175
GL/Opto Striker - I like the shape, straight with moderate fade
GL Vision - Turnovers
GL Villain - O/S Shots
Champ Mamba or Champ RR
Opto Air Halo
Blizzard Champ Katana

I am open to all ideas and suggestions...Thanks!
Last edited by NumberTree on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:58 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Doug's Bag

Postby JR » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:41 am

You have a problem spot in the maximum distance category. Force ain't max D it's too overstable and Archon even when new ain't reliable enough for anything else than hyzer flips to annies at your power even at heavier weights if you factor in wind resistance. You need something less overstable than the Force and more overstable than the Archon. There are many longer discs than the Force that fit that description. Given your affinity for anny releases a more overstable disc would be good but i don't agree with your preference on anything else than low wind open courses. Suitable discs for your preference are in abundance. I've heard good things about Quasars but i have an overstable lemon only. Other longer discs than the Force are not as good in the wind if you count Champion Xcaliber to be about as long and can't get personal run Apes was it from Avery Jenkins.

Boss? Destroyer is a little shorter and less fading but breaks in fast in Pro and turns to almost as long as the Boss but with a quite understable early 80 % of the flight. DD2? There are lots of such discs so i'd peruse a couple of flight charts. Joe's Flight chart and Marshall street and many online shops have their own flight numbers.

Relying so much on the Axis is gonna cap your repeatable across all conditions mid range distance because that disc needs a razor sharp throw with no margin of error beyond your current golf D and a pretty clean release up to then too. There are plenty of other discs that are way more reliable in giving you margin of error for the execution of the shot that are also pretty straight out to 300'. MD2, X Buzzz, broken in Rocs. At least the first run Makos fit the bill but they are less HSS than the aforementioned.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Doug's Bag

Postby NumberTree » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:07 am

I think I am going to use Blake_T's week #3 guide as a starting point to reconfigure my bag for this year. JR as you have viable advice, I was looking to streamline it and get away from the discs of speed 11-13. I would like to see if I could use a bag with nothing higher than a 10 speed, even if that means dropping the Force.

Day #1 started - Went out and played with putters only.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby JR » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:28 pm

Short version: I'd get at least a new Beast. Max weight for wind tolerance and line shaping and a 166 would be great for max D replacing wider winged discs. Because you gain a lot in the ease of throwing and forgiveness for underpowering losing 20-25' max i think vs Nukes and such. Long annies? Look no further than lighter Beasts. Not bad at all in tail winds.

You must be doing something right to throw that far. So eventually you should throw speed 13s as well. There's nothing wrong in using discs that cover the entire stability spectrum. At least as long as you can also throw finesse. Those training regimens per each week are geared toward newer players. It does not hurt to revert to putter only rounds and mid only rounds as there is always room for improvement. In the long term and chasing the best possible score for a single round you need to enlarge the quiver. If for no other reason at least wind tolerance is always a good reason to keep the Force around. It is way more versatile than the XXX at your power.

For winds even putter drives are iffy with your set up. Weaving around the trees more overstable putters like Rhynos and Pigs are useful too. Jokeri is a great medium between hogs that are short and long touchy straight putters like Ions.

You have good drivers but many of them don't respond well the annying because flexing out is not gonna happen on other than low powered shots or very tall lines.

You don't necessarily need a beefier mid in calmer conditions if you throw the Leo. It is not exactly a forgiving disc even at pulled power at that weight. That QOLF should work very well. QOLS is more HSS and slower and shorter than the Valk. At your power the Valk and the QOLS are close in fade but it may be down to spin/speed rate as to which fades less. For me the QOLS turns less and fades less than a similar weight C Valk. It's difficult to say much about the Striker because they have changed and i had early more HSS ones. I've never thrown less HSS ones.

Which speed to use is difficult to say as it depends on many factors. Such as finger and hand size plus strength. And where the strength is in dynamic short bursts. Palm squeeze or the fingers and so on. I believe that newest Beasts are the longest speed 10 discs and they are the most HSS ones i've thrown in recent years. I haven't thrown old molds after getting some power and form so i can't compare to those. At 175 in any plastic new Beasts are very controllable at your power. They handle some winds even headwinds while not flipping and fading the least out of long drivers. Beasts sacrifice fairly little D compared to speed 13 discs. If you are serious about limiting to speed 10 There's no better than the Beast unless you tell yourself that Surge or Surge SS are speed 10s. They are Discraft Wraiths except they fade less and are slower and shorter so the 10 description ain't bad. As the Surge SS especially is very close to the Beast only fading a little more that could work too. Surges are wide winged enough to vary between discs though. Beasts from late 2010 (when i got my first more HSS ones) have all flown the same across different plastics.

I still would tell myself to carry the Force for trick shots, FH and overheads plus stiff headwinds or whichever excuse you need to keep it. It is a great idea to develop finger pinch strength to eliminate a possible future (current?) bottleneck of distance. Using wide winged discs helps a little over time if you do a lot of field practice. It helps with getting the fingers to stretch at least. Proper power is better gained from more strenuous training methods with heavier objects. Carrying groceries with pinch grip of varying finger count saves time for other stuff in life.

You have many ok to good discs and you could build good bags out of them for calm days. For all round use i'd get something beefier for the putters and mids. Depending on how you build the mid part of your game the drivers could change. Leos are at their best in max weight for control and shaping while being the least affected by winds in Champion 175. A Beast and a Force could suffice. For a less minimalistic approach i'd add something beefier than the Leo too in the FW department for shaping and windier days like the Striker. Because you have it but the QOLS would work well it is one of the sweeter discs released in the past few years. Beast and the QOLF aren't a total overlap because the Beast fades less and is longer. If you did not have the QOLF a PD would make a good more fading shorter companion for the Beast.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby NumberTree » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:41 pm

JR- A ton of advice there, thanks!
Day #2 Field practice today - slightly windy; got to throw in L/R and R/L winds a lot.
Threw: 169g Champ Beast/ 175g Champ Valk/ 173g TP Sword/ 160g D Nuke/ 168g D Nuke/ 170g Z Nuke/ 172g Pro Destroyer/ 175g QOLS/ 165g MOLF/175g QOLF/ 169g Opto Bolt.
The Nukes and Bolt are out, they are just too much disc for me.
The Destroyer and the Sword were about equal in distance RHBH (right around 360'). One was better L/R one was better R/L can't remember which. I tried both RHFH also, I was getting slighty more distance this way.
The Beast and Valk were about equal in distance as well. The Valk was turning over a lot and the Beast did alright. I would say 325' for both. I would like to try out a heavier Beast but the 169g is all I had.
The MOLF/QOLF/QOLS all surprised me they all did great. The Molf of course was a little squirrely in the wind. The Qolf had a similar flight and distance as the destroyer. The Qols held it's flight path much better than the Valk, with a little more distance.
I tried to focus on having good form, good snap and clean release. I did notice something with my grip. I use a three finger power grip with my pinky out of the way...when throwing I realized my ring finger dropped out of the way too and when the disc would "snap" I only had my first and middle finger on the rim. I have not noticed whether I have always done this or not, never paid too much attention. Didn't seem to hinder my release any.
Thanks for the help so far!


As for the concern with headwinds, I have an ESP Zone/Z Wasp/Opto XXX/Z Force that has preformed alright so far. I do have a 175g Champ Leopard that I can throw in if needed.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby JR » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:30 pm

Two finger grip helps with getting more tendon mobility allowing a longer and looser fast snap of the wrist. The snag is the lesser grip strength which will reduce the ability to hold on to the disc for a full disc pivot. I'd use the Destro only for drives where you need more fade than the Orion and keep the Beast for straighter shots than the Orion. If need be the Orions could be ditched. If you can throw the Beast for annies the Valk might well be redundant as well.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby NumberTree » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:05 am

JR, I hear yah on the Destro/Beast combo but, I already have the Olf/Ols combo...

Days 3-14

Practiced a lot of form in the field this past 2 weeks. I think I'm getting my strength and form back to what it was last summer. I have tried to not focus on grips but, paying attention to what happens unconsciously. I have been practicing throwing hyser shots a lot.
I added a Champion Blizzard Destroyer 154g (So much for everything under speed 10)!!! The thing is great. Goes far and holds line in wind (Yes crosswinds too). It is surprisingly Overstable but, will flip up and go if needed.
Tried a 137g Blizzard Wraith too, whew...flippy.

Next trials will be Opto XXX/GL XXX/GL Trident/Z Pred...I'm gonna perfect some OH utility throws for this season.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby NumberTree » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Day 15

OH Practice in field today. FH Rollers, thumbers and more utility shots. Used a fairway next to the field to get more realistic scenarios. GL XXX and Flat Z Pred are like the same disc. Opto XXX is 1 notch more OS (if that's possible). I felt like I couldn't control the GL trident as much as the others.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby JR » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm

Throwing lighter discs of HSS enough mold in calm weather has no disadvantages except gliding long more easily. Enough lightness under your normal weight range offers control over the disc for at least one speed rating notch. In some cases 2 notches, i'm not so sure about 3.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: DP2012 Bag

Postby NumberTree » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:49 am

Went back to wizards...after putting with the ions, I would generate the spin they needed with a wrist flick. The wrist flick was screwing my form up on drives, I was bending my wrist back without realizing. I believe this has helped my other throws and allows me to cover a wider spectrum with different wizards.
The OLFS are holding up awesome in wind, BH, FH and OH!
Orange 1.2 QOLF=OS/Milky 1.2 QOLF=Slight OS/Tie Dyed 1.1 SOLF=Stable/White MOLF=Almost straight
The OLS seems to be a little less sensitive than the Valk. And the Bliz Destroyer is beef and D all in one!!! I threw a Z tracker in the bag a few times but don't think it is necessary. I am pretty psyched with this bag for now.
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