FTT's Bag

[Fightingthetide]

I threw a new 172 D P2 on 12 holes today. No time for lots of details, but I got a good feel for how it flew. It's even stable into light headwinds at 250' of power if given a little more height. It works well on just about every shot. I really can't think of a putter shot I couldn't cover with P2's ranging from new to beat. I threw the new D P2 off the shorts, and drivers off the longs, and the scores were within 2 strokes of each other.

What should I be looking for as I keep working with putters off the tee?

[JR]

When the flight goes off it is you that has done a mistake not the disc flying off. If the only inconsistency across all conditions is you you gotta lock that slot for that disc.

[Fightingthetide]

Well, that being said, I feel like putters are locked in - P2's.

Next step - mids. For the last few weeks I have done really well with Rocs. My most seasoned DX Rancho Roc is working really well at holding any line I give it. It's still not quite flippy. There's a few holes I would normally throw a flippy D MD2, and I have managed really well with Rocs the last few rounds - just adjusting the angle of release.

The only thing I need to work on is throwing them in headwinds. I still have a little OAT to fix, but mostly when I give Rocs a 4-finger power grip. I've switched my grip to a stack grip where my pointer finger is wrapped under the rim and the pressure is on the side of my finger, not on the pad. I'm getting better results with that...and a callous. I'm tempted to put my Gator in the bag for windy days, but I want to learn how to control Rocs better into the wind - the issues are with me, not the disc.

This seems simple enough. I'm not sure why I would need to add another mold. I'll keep the Gator around for stupid-windy days and courses that might need a niche shot.

[JR]

Great about the putter slot. Unfortunately Rocs vary in the same plastic. So it may not be just you. Rocs can wobble from grip issues like scraping along the index finger so the way you grip should help. No Roc i've had emulates the hard fade of the Gator in primo plastic. The hardest fading one i have is a USDGC 2009 Star Rancho. It does fade more than the regular Rocs but ain't anywhere close to the wind handling or fade of the Gator. Something that comes in handy often times. Who says you must absolutely use just a single mold for mids? Or putter or anything. But as workhorses the P2 and the Roc are just great for those that can release them cleanly.

[Fightingthetide]

Who says you must absolutely use just a single mold for mids? Or putter or anything. But as workhorses the P2 and the Roc are just great for those that can release them cleanly.

It's more for the sake of learning one mold. I'm fine adding another utility disc in there with the workhorse molds (Gator or MD2). With more practice, I think I could get Rocs to do just about anything I need. I'll report back in a week or so on how that's going. At the same time, I'm still going through the paces with Teebirds and Leopards. I feel confident with them so far and I know where they work best and where they don't work (mainly into the wind). For windier days, I'll add a beat 11x Firebird for controlled distance. Into a headwind and downhill, it basically has the flight of a Teebird.

[JR]

That FB can perhaps power down to handle the Gator shots. What i'd like everyone to do is to always think of alternative lines to throw including utility shots. Normally you wouldn't throw utility shots that often so that slot disc won't get used enough to learn the potential quickly. If possible i'd throw a regular Roc shot and a Gator shot side by side including powered down FB to see what the purpose of hard left hooks is and how it influences the score. The more your second shots come from bushes and trees the more useful the automated hooking fade becomes.

[Fightingthetide]

That automated hooking fade comes into play on a few holes around here. I bet the beat 11x FB would do the trick for anything that needs some distance beyond what a Roc could do into the wind. The 12x would be reserved for overhand shots and realllly stiff winds.

I'll keep running through the paces with these molds. It seems like I have a solid setup. I hope to come back to this in a few months and see what the shortcoming are of each mold and see if there is any need to make mold changes and even whether it's necessary to move up to a tourney bag. I'll post updates along the way.

[Fightingthetide]

3 quick notes after my round today
(more like 3 reasons to be excited)

1 - I need to keep working with Rocs. I'm learning you can't overpower them. I need to slow down and smooth out my form. When I do, I get the best results. I parked a 298' tunnel shot today with my worn DX Roc. It was straight all the way to the ground.
2 - Teebirds are pretty one-dimensional. They work great for point-and-shoot lines, but are not so great for line-shaping. I'm not going to change molds though...they are still a great disc. On a fun note, I parked a 367' hole today with a Teebird.
3 - A fresh Valk, thrown flat, will carry 439' in a tailwind parked for a drop-in birdie.

[JR]

Eagle is the traditional Teebird companion for non point and shoot shots.

[Fightingthetide]

Eagle is the traditional Teebird companion for non point and shoot shots.

Thought about that, but I don't want to switch anything up. My 172 Champ Teebird has a pretty high PLH and doesn't move around too much into headwinds. It also flexes back good enough to work on some line-shaping. Either that, or my Star Leopards are still pretty stable.

[Fightingthetide]

Though I said I wouldn't switch molds, the fact that all Champ Valks seem to be coming out in plus configurations, and because of the new run of clear, gummy Champ Beasts, I am transitioning to Beasts for max D. So far, it seems like I am getting the same D with these as with Valks, but with more versatility and control.

175 - flat, high PLH - thrown into a light headwind and kept low, it's a frozen rope to the ground. Thrown with more height, it's straight and has a strong fade at the end. I couldn't find a Valk that would do that AND carry as far as this does.

168 - moderate dome, lower PLH - this is the workhorse of the batch. It holds a straighter line than either, given calm conditions.

167 - domey, lowest PLH - thrown flat and about 15' off the ground, this will turn far to the right and have enough stability to keep it from dumping over (unless thrown too low). I'm still working on dialing in the correct amount of power/hyzer to get it to flip up to flat.

Everything else is pretty much the same. Here's what it looks like, depending on the length of the course and/or wind.

Distance:
175 Champ Beast, 375' - light headwinds, forehands
168 Champ Beast 390' - workhorse distance driver
167 Champ Beast 400' - tailwinds, max D

Fairway:
172 Champ Teebird - overstable
170 Star Teebird - beat, workhorse fairway driver
168 Star Leopard - stable
171 Pro Leopard - understable

Utility:
175 Champ Firebird - flat, beefy, overhands
175 11x Champ Firebird - beat, strong headwinds

Mids:
180 12x KC Pro Roc - beat, straight
176 DX Roc x2 - one new, one beat

Putters:
172 D P2 - stable
170 D P2 - beat

[JR]

Previous plastic Beasts flew farther than Valks on golf line drives.

[Fightingthetide]

It's not that I thought the new blend of Champ flies further. It just looked too good to pass up....and I can't stand plus mold Champ Valks. I never gave Beasts a chance before this because I wanted to stick to speed 9. That helped me reach 400'. This feels like a good step up at the right time.

[Fightingthetide]

What would be a good compliment for Beasts? Something with a little less turn, a little more fade, and handles some headwinds. OLF?

[JR]

Beasts vary and the way you describe your disc sounds like it is second generation Beast or third with OAT. The current ones are third gen that for me at 166 Pro, Champ or Star won't turn at all at 400' in calm conditions and 2-3 degrees in most headwinds. So i'd go to your local stores and compare the outer edge of their non DX Beasts to see if any of them has a higher PLH than the one you have. And get that. Failing that if you find a high dome high PLH Opto Flow it would work or a Surge SS or a S moderately to fully stiff high PLH non flat TD. SOLF 1.1 could work the 1.2 certainly fades more dunno about 1.3s and i heard some are 1.1s misstamped as 1.3s so go figure out.