FTT's Bag

[Fightingthetide]

Not sure which run these are from, but they are all almost entirely clear and very grippy. OAT isn't making these turn over. The 167 and 168 turn from flat at 375' of power (167 more-so than the 168), yet they are pretty straight for understable drivers. They are amazing discs for open distance, but they tend to float around too long and don't fade enough to be reliable on distance shots that need good placement. The 175 has no glide and doesn't turn or fade much if kept low...It drops quick enough before the fade will kick in. Yet even still it moves around in the wind too much. I'm not so sure that it will have a spot in the bag much longer, which is why I want a more stable compliment that will handle winds and still be workable.

And when these were new they didn't turn much at all. Lightly sanding the flash and giving them a good run through a rocky, wooded course helped get them where they are pretty quick.

If it helps, here's some PLH comparisons.


Left: 167 (most dome), Right: 175 (flat)


Left: 167, Right: 168 (moderate dome)


Left: 175, Right: 168

[JR]

The 175 sure has high enough PLH to be different to the lighter ones so i'd work more with that and i didn't realize that you had managed to break in your discs this quickly. Now it makes much more sense to me that they flip. However; i threw my aging 168 Pro today pushing the wrist far down and really using a lot of forearm power to keep it that way with Boss and Quasar lights too and got a lot more flip than normal or in the case of the Boss 148 maintaining the initial anny to the ground too often even with around 20'+ apex heights and to me abnormally small anny angles. So the wrist down angle and run up speed changed things for flippier for me. Dialing back to the x step helped some but with the wind i'm not able to say if my disc has broken in enough to change role from straight to anny disc. Anny landing with a run up at 390' skipping to 400' could be useful.

I don't have clear Beasts i haven't seen them yet and my champs are stiff.

High PLH non flat TD 175 or Z Surge SS 170-175 and if you can find Opto Flow that is heavy, high PLH and domey should work. Each of those really. That kind of Flow fades the most out of those so not floating too far without a cap to the distance is easiest achieved with that one. If that doesn't work an SL or a Wraith for one or two more steps of LSS?

[Fightingthetide]

That 175 Beast isn't good in the wind...otherwise I would keep it in the bag. SL or Wraith were also on my radar, but I wanted to stay in the same power range (Wraith out) and have some wind-fighting abilities (SL out?) The only reason Wraiths are out from this slot is that I want to eventually step into a speed 12 mold (Destroyer, Sword, etc) for max D shots...but not any time soon...and that would be overlap if I had both.

My bag at this point pretty much has 4 discs at each speed range (distance, fairway, mid) with flight paths that cover all shots - headwinds, workable with good fade, straight, and right. (and 2 putters)

I'll get a bigger bag once I need to step up.

[JR]

SL takes winds well but check the reply i made to the PD thread too because getting a proper one would probably be your best option.

[Fightingthetide]

I'll pick up a few PD's and give them a shot. That would knock out Teebirds, and I would throw Valks back in there (similar feel in the hand to PD's).

If this works - and it seems like it will since I would now have headwind shots covered - I would have these 5 molds: PD - Valk - Leopard - Roc - P2

Edit - still considering what to do for max-d.

[JR]

Can you loan discs for max D slot because that would give indication to which kind of disc your throwing leans? Out of the longest discs VIP tall dome high PLH Kings have the lowest power requirement in regular weights. It is way more durable than Blizzzards that thanks to the lower weight go as far or farther. It is a matter of finding the best nose angle sensitivity, power requirement, HSS and as low a LSS as possible. Zero G Quasars are the shit when it comes to low power requirement without being terribly flippy like the Blizz Katanas and not fading out due to high power requirement like the blizz Boss. But the slower Wraith in a proper weight may also suite you sub 150 gets flippy soon.

[Fightingthetide]

What I need is a disc that turns over slightly but has enough LSS to come back, but not fade too harsh. I like to throw max D from a shallow hyzer angle. My champ Beasts and champystar Valks do this perfectly. Which is why a ZG Quasar sounds enticing, if in fact they are like B-Boss's with a tick more HSS and LSS.

My high 130's B-Boss is to understable. So if the dome/PLH are right, I bet a low 140's ZG Quasar would bomb for me. Kings aren't as easy to find around these parts.

[JR]

You may have had an error in there. Zero G Quasar flips more than the Boss and fades less. My 137 Boss is not flipping at all for me even with nose below the rear of the disc on a low shot at full power. I think your Boss must be shaped differently from mine. My disc's outside edge is not drooping down at all. If you want your disc to not flip just bend the outside edge up to where it is on normal plastic Bosses.

You can view the light Quasars (although they vary) as longer Valks too but also changing angles very slowly like a Roc does. Taastyyyyy...

[Fightingthetide]

Yeah, my Boss has a low PLH. Can you just keep bending the leading edge upward and have it stay? Do you need to apply heat?

What i'll probably end up doing is finding a lighter Quasar with a higher PLH, as you said.

PD's should be here today or tomorrow. More field work to do. It's not ideal, because I don't want to keep switching things around. My last setup was great, but really lacked distance into the wind. A few months ago, switching to Rocs really changed my game for the better...here's hoping PD's will do the same.

[keltik]

there used to be a topic on here about disc tuning. It may be tough to find because it was done before the site fix of 2010 and the older threads got indexed in a strange manner. that may have been resolved. but still look for threads about disc tuning. there are even some old videos out there about how to do it. It may be an outdated practice from the old days of base plastic only.

[Fightingthetide]

This helped a little with the theory of elastic vs. plastic deformation, but wasn't conclusive on the best patterns to follow with premium plastic - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5680&start=0

Anything else out there that might shed light on how to properly tune premium plastic to be more stable?

[Fightingthetide]

And what's the rundown with FD's in terms of stability? I keep hearing the 175's are the least stable. I had a 169 that was like a beat Teebird...which isn't what I wanted it for. If there turns out to be too much of a gap between PD's and Leo's, I might entertain them again.

[JR]

I only had one FD and didn't like it so i donated it. You don't need heat and base plastics can take way less bending angle before damage than primo plastics. To get the outside edge up hold the disc with a 90 degree separation between the hands (roughly) and keep the flight plate pointed at you and bend the center of the disc away from you bringing the hands closer to each other. I'd start with only about half an inch of movement and going round the disc in 22.5 degree (roughly) increments. Insert the parrot crowd you can't feel your cock and can't see the light here.

After one round look at the PLH if it has changed. Then throw it even if you didn't notice a difference. If there is no change you can go around twice and if it doesn't work add the bending to an inch with one round and two rounds thereafter if the first round doesn't work. And so on. Some plastics take a alot of bending to get changes Blizz ain't so tough that it needs more than about two inches of bending to change quickly. Note that you shouldn't tune a cold disc at least hard.

[Fightingthetide]

Tuning worked on a 134 Destroyer. I turned the nose down and it's much more usable, whereas before it was too stable to get true distance lines. It worked too on my 137ish Boss, but it's still sooo touchy. Now I'm considering a heavier Blizzard DD2. If the PLH is high enough, and there's enough dome, I could see it flexing back really well and being workable on distance lines.

PD's arrived today. I'll be pairing these with Beasts for now. I'm still debating what to put between these and Rocs. I'm considering DX Teebirds, or maybe DX Gazelles. Leopards are great, but might not bridge the gap with distance. I have a great DX Teebird that's already broken in, but I wonder how hard it would be to get more of these. Any thoughts?

For now ill put a DX Teebird, Champ Leo, and Pro Leo in the bag to run them through their paces in this setup.

175 S PD - yellow champystar, not too much dome
168 S PD - red champystar, moderate dome
168 Champ Beast - slightly understable, moderate dome
167 Champ Beast - understable, domey

180 12x KC Roc - overstable, fresh
180 12x KC Roc - stable/straight, beat
176 DX Roc - getting worked in, slightly understable

175 S P2 - overstable driving putter
172 D P2 - stable driving putter
170 D P2 - neutral driving / putting

[keltik]

I vote Leopard.