Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

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Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:49 pm

Hey Forums! As a new participant here, I'm making the obligatory bag thread. Any and all comments/questions/etc are mighty welcome.

I'm new to the sport - only been playing for about 3 months - so this is very much a work in progress (like my game in general). More than anything, I want to take my time in building the bag, only filling roles as it really starts to seem necessary. I appreciate the minimalist viewpoint that many share, and plan on sticking to as few discs/molds as possible as I develop my game. That being said, I'm not the dogmatic type, so I'll add a new mold if I want to try something out.

Here's where things currently stand:

Drivers:
- 171 X Cyclone: straight-to-fade driver
- 167 D Cyclone: quite beat; straight shots and anny lines
- 166 DX Banshee: excessive hyzer shots, get-out-of-trouble disc

Mids:
- 173 Z Comet & 172 Z Comet: all mid duties, including driving for shorter holes and anny shots
- 167 DX Skeeter: A relic from a few months ago; I'm keeping it in solely to throw on holes with water hazards

Putter:
- 175 SSS Voodoo: Glidey and grippy; love it

I throw the Cyclones 250'-275' and the Comets 225'-250'. Can't really drive with the SSS Voodoo, but I was throwing my DX Aviar 200'+ before I lost it.

Future additions/purchases:
- Driving putter (likely a Soft Voodoo)
- X Comet

Current holes that I'm aware of:
- Understable driver
- Windy-day mid

One of my big current conflicts is whether to continue to cycle D Cyclones, or whether to try out a more understable mid in premium plastic for that spot. At the very moment, the beat D is filling the purpose, but it was so unpredictable getting there, and I have no idea how long it will stay there. I'm the kind of person who prefers predictability and familiarity in general, so I'm starting to think that cycling lower grade plastics to cover all my lines isn't for me. We'll see. Anyway, I'm probably going to order a lighter (~166g) Gold Line River to audition it for the understable driver spot.

Depending on what happens with the above, I'll either stick with 1-2 D Cyclones in the upper 160s (I'm not really liking the results of the X Cyclone, although I like the feel of the plastic) for my stable/overstable slot, or perhaps try out an ESP Cyclone. Will likely stay with D at least for the moment.

I'll need to pick up some windy day mids (Rocs?) at some point, especially given the wind we can get here in New Orleans, but at the moment, I'm dealing with the Comets, so I don't feel like there's a rush.

Any thoughts/comments would be much appreciated.

Edit to add: I'll need to get a proper DG bag at some point, too; at present, I simply schlep things around in my backpack, which does the trick, but is an imperfect solution. Cheap is good, but so is durable. Recommendations are welcome.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby JR » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:35 am

Champion Leopard takes less power to flip and keep it annied and lasts the same for years so i recommend that before the River and the River is the next step up or a Sidewinder.

Recommending a driving putter is hard because people have different hand sizes and grips so it is individual which discs won't work now without a grip improvement. Is bead a problem how about a thin or thick profile? I would not use a soft Gateway putter for driving unless you plan to beat it quickly and get the most use out of a broken in version and getting a disc rotation going on.

The wind handling mid for your power should be a DX Rancho Roc if you don't mind the bead and if you do Z Buzzz with a flat top, steeply concave wing and a high shoulder. Many/most are like that.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:56 am

My thanks for the comments, JR.

I've had a few gos with a Leopard, and I have to say that I haven't liked it. I've always had a real hard time articulating why. I can throw it well enough, but its line always seems somewhat uninspired/listless, and it doesn't feel all that great in my hand (although the River has felt mighty fine when I've held it, and the specs seem similar...). I'm sure this is a me thing, but the disc has turned me off every time I've tried it. It's a shame, because on paper, it's the perfect disc for the slot I'm trying to fill at this point in my playing life. All of that said, I have an X-Out Champ Leopard that I fished out of a water hazard a while back in search of my own errantly-thrown Comet, so maybe I'll give that a few more tosses. But I recently retried the Leo about a month ago, and came away feeling rather blah.

I don't have problems with beads; in fact, two of the molds I've settled on (Cyclones and Comets) both have prominent beads, and they feel great in my hand. The only disc I've ever disliked because of a bead is a Wizard: that bead is way too excessive for me.

I don't really mind my driving putter beating in, but I see what you're saying. I had discounted HPPs because of how floppy I've heard they are, but maybe I should look into that. Or glow? I don't think I'd drive with a putter too too much, really mostly for practice, and those few holes where it's needed (and, perhaps, putter-only rounds), so I'm not worried about it beating in too fast. I mostly just want one stiff enough for driving (my SSS is way too floppy to put any zing on it at all).

Sounds like the Roc would be a good OS mid to go with. I've heard the feel is quite comparable to Comets, which is part of why I was considering it.

Thanks again for the food for thought!
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby JR » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:25 pm

I think i understood incorrectly what you were looking for in a windy day mid. For wind the Roc is good for storms you need something beefier and Z Wasp is shaped the same and better. If it isn't enough a Sentinel or a Gator could work. Gator is shorter and harder fading but straightens out well in storm winds that gust so that the Wasp begins to struggle. For a driving putter have you tried the Vibram Ridge? It is close to the Wizard in shape but flat topped so it feels a little thinner albeit with a bead of the same size. If that feels too large maybe dropping a bead is a good option and then a HPP Warlock could be great. Those glide less and fade harder than normal putters but early in the career they protect against off axis torque. That is a double edged sword because it probably improves scores in the short term lengthening or stalling the learning process. Because flippier discs force you to learn faster because they punish you so much that it is unacceptable to continue throwing the way you do. Naturally a non HPP Warlock can last a long time too. Not all HPPs are that floppy in fact i'm not bothered at all by their feel. And i do like the discs to be at least somewhat firm.

The River is the next step up from the Leo in real speed addition and the GL fades less than the Opto. A DX Gazelle these days is made out of a weird quickly breaking in plastic meaning it will become understable fast. Flippier than the Leo or the River quickly. Starting out like the Cyclone. The advantage is that it is tackier plastic and it is good for this season. DX when wet is grippier than Pro D. If you go for anny releases the grip strength requirement increases and there the added tackiness of the DX helps.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:06 pm

Thanks again for your thoughts, JR.

Your point about the River's speed increase over what I currently throw really gave me pause, and made me consider whether I really needed the disc or not. I spent the weekend focusing on my anhyzer shots, and came away feeling that, for the time being, I'd be better served learning to work the Cyclone on those lines. I imagine that I'll get an understable driver in premium plastic eventually - I'm just not a fan of relying on beat base plastic - but for now, I'll either throw the Cyclone on those holes or use my Comet. I had a successful enough outing at the course on Monday to feel like I can play those holes successfully enough with my current setup.

I didn't feel like I wanted something as OS as a Wasp/Gator/etc. Since I'm throwing so few molds, I want more versatility out of a stable/overstable midrange. I did some research and had a good discussion on DGCR, and in the end bought a DX Roc, a C-MD2, and an Opto Pain. I'm going to spend some time with each of them and hopefully find what I was looking for there. Then, I'll either trade the others away, or have a few Christmas presents. :-p

Thanks for all of the information on the putters. Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you'd recommend a mold other than a Voodoo? I plan on getting my brother a Warlock for Christmas, so that will give me an opportunity to try one out.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby JR » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:25 am

The River is faster and longer than the Cyclone and current Cyclones don't compete with Leopards on distance vs required power so my standard advice is always to try the Leopard first and see if it fades out. If it does the River will do worse in that respect. But the River will pick up a lot of distance annied for an s-curve.

Reasons against the Warlock/Voodoo for everyone is the grip. If it doesn't feel good there are other discs out there. Like Vibram Sole (tall) and Ridge not so tall but not exactly thin either. Both of those flip less for me than the Warlock/Voodoo. In fact i can't flip a new Ridge and the Sole is good in calm weather as long as a i mind my grip and don't pinch too hard to have the bottom of the disc scrape along my fingers. Radius is about the same disc as the Warlock but in two different plastics so if you can fondle one try it in the hand. More durable with good tackiness and durability better than the average Gateway Warlock. Focus is pretty Wizard like and beefier than the pair you are auditioning and for a thinner profile thus easier grip for moderate to small hands Opto Pure from Latitude 64. MVP Anode is pretty sweet too but both the Anode and the Pure tend to push through hyzers. Ion is almost the same with more fade than the Anode in the current Proton. I have not gotten Neutron ones yet. So why not a Voodoo? There are many good competitors out there so maybe one of those suits you better. Like Aviar variants, i'm partial to P2 by Discmania and so many others. I suggest going to a store and fondling each putter type and plastic variant they carry to find an easy to drive with shape for your grip.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:25 am

I forgot to mention that your recommendation of the Leo inspired me to break out the Champion X-Out Leo I found recently. I was getting what for me was decent distance with it, perhaps a bit shorter than my Cyclones. I actually had trouble holding anny lines all the way with it, which surprised me: no matter how extreme an angle I put on it, it would always fade back a good bit at the very end of its flight. Perhaps it's the weight (175) and plastic. No stall out problems though, which was nice, and I did notice it was a bit easier to get up to speed than my Cyclones. Still not a fan of how it feels in my hand, though.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:35 pm

Update! There've been a lot of changes.

Drivers (275' average/325' max)
- 166 DX Banshee - Quite beat, but still has a healthy fade and shrugs off any and all winds.
- 2 x 172 VIP Underworld - Love this thing. Covers me anywhere from straight to understable, holds long gradual hyzers nicely, fights off the wind better than I expected, turns over reliably, and provides me with my max D (such as it is). Amazing disc.
- 168 Tournament Underworld - Notch more understable than the VIPs, I use this for lower power turnovers or times when it just absolutely has to finish right (I'm strictly RHBH).

Also auditioning
- 155 Champ & 167 DX Eagle X - I've been dissatisfied with throwing only the Banshees for my OS slot (too limited, even when cycling DXs), so I'm trying out these buggers. Ideally they would replace the Banshee entirely.

Midranges (225' average/250'+ max)
- 3 x 173-177 Z Comets - Carry multiples just for practice purposes. Would like to pick up an X at some point.

Putters (200' average/225' max)
- 2 x 175 Firm VPs - Picked this up for approach shots, short drives, and windy day putts. I love it so much that I stopped carrying an OS mid. Kudos to JR for first putting Vibram putters in my mind. Looking forward to trying out the Medium I'll be getting for my local Birdie Bash.
- 175 SSS and 172 Superglow Voodoos - My putting putters. Toyed with the idea of going strictly to the VPs, but I love the feel of these things in my hand and they have noticeably more glide, especially at slower speeds. Superglow is firmer than the SSS; I use both pretty interchangeably.

- - - - - - -

The stable/overstable driver slot is really the only question mark for me. I've only had one round with the Eagles, so I'm still reserving judgement: need to get a better idea of their wind-fighting abilities, for starters. I'm already wondering though if I'd be better off picking up a Lat/Westside disc for that slot (heavier Opto River, lighter Saint, or lighter Tourney Stag), since my distance difference is pretty large between glidely Euro plastic and the Innova/Discraft molds I've thrown. I would then just keep the Banshees in there for windy days and accept that blow to my efforts towards keeping things simple. I tried out a VIP Stag and it just didn't excite me; didn't fly noticeably farther than my Banshee, although I could spend some more time with it. I'm just so satisfied with everything else in my bag that I know I haven't settled this slot yet.

For the moment I don't feel a hole in the overstable mid slot, even though it looks like it's there. I was throwing Pains, but pretty much the only thing they do well that the VPs don't is short S curve drives. If I start feeling a gap, I'll either go back to Pains or use it as an excuse to try a few other things out (been wanting to try an Obex).
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby JR » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:41 am

I don't know what you mean by stable/overstable because those are two different roles. If you mean something in between this site uses the term moderately overstable to describe a disc that is not laser straight or a dump fader like the Banshee. River in Opto for a fraction more HSS, fade and wind tolerance and GL for straighter?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby Qikly » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:30 am

Sorry about the confusion. Yes, I meant moderately overstable - something with a healthy fade to distinguish it from my Underworlds as much as possible, but still be more versatile than the Banshee.

Maybe an Opto River is the way to go; my brother will be in town in two weeks so I'll try out the one I bought him for Christmas. If anything, my concern is that the River won't distinguish itself enough from the Underworld - they're different discs, but I can get the Underworld to fly straight or on a slight hyzer if I want, so I want something noticeably more stable than that. There was too much overlap for my liking with the GLs I own.
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Re: Qikly's Bag - A Work in Progress

Postby JR » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:10 pm

There should be little overlap.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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