Uncle B's Bag

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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Nice man. I'll be sure to look out for those flat ones and keep to the ones that have a just a little dome to them.

That's good to know about the Orc Goin farther than a PD. I did some reading on it and it said good for tailwinds. I was looking at it's rating and wouldn't it be good for Headwinds too?
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:18 pm

Normal dome, not real high, not minimal either.

Who's saying the Orc's a good tailwind driver? I haven't heard that. It's a moderately overstable driver rated at -1 turn, 3 fade...same as Wraith, Destroyer, and Boss. But speed 10 vs speeds 11, 12, and 13. It's decent into a headwind, but a PD/OLF is a little better, and then of course there are Preds, Firebirds, etc as true headwind drivers. The Pro Orc is less stable though, and not as good into a headwind. The one I'm talking about is the champ Orc. You can crank on the champ Orc, and might get a tight S curve with reliable fade. I use mine mostly for hyzer drives and flex-shots.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby JR » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:24 pm

Orcs have varied over time. Initial batch had no turn and i was too late to the punch and got an s-curver and much later tried another when people here said there was a new batch of straighter ones. Still flipping and fading out regarding D and i got the Beasts out as far on avaerage or a little farther and maxed out farther with the Beasts with a thinner rim... Glide is Wraith like with the Orc and the Wraith gets distance with power and higher speed and will be shorter than the Orc for many because of the fading out we are in the threshold power where either could be longer depending on the nose angle and spin. OLF is longer than the PD.

I don't like the Orc s-curvers because other discs do things better but i have no idea how recent ones fly. I dislike the s-curver Champ 175 Orc despite having my only night ace with it. It is flipping too much even in calm weather and is useless here by the sea because of normal winds for this area. A friend had his old Pro Orc with soft plastic break into a roller super fast. Are current Pro Orcs made in driver Pro that is hard and durable like SOLF and Pro Beast (softer than SOLF) or the DGR stamp era P PDs? It is a crying shame that P PDs are now made in not thtat cut resistant and not so bend resistant soft material.

Spin putts need back to front movement from the elbow no sideways movement whatsoever is good. I thought it was a given and natural until i saw a first timer try to psin putt in a straight line and moving the whole arm elbow inclusded to the right the entire time each time despite being told so and instructed to try and push the arm straight at the pole and point at it with the index finger. What's up with that?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:07 am

Champ Orcs with dome aren't flippy. Had a couple flat ones that were though.

Are you saying your Beast wasn't flipping but your Orc was? Should be the reverse.

Orc decent into a headwind, Beast almost worthless.

Beast rim not thinner than an Orc, both are 2.0cm.

Which is the longer disc?...for power throwers it should be the more stable Orc, while the Beast has more turn and less fade for the lower power thrower.

...I'll say it again, wrist action is key to spin putts, forget about the elbow.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:46 am

The more I've been throwing my Beasts the more I've come to realize I have a freaky stable Champion Beast that I just picked up last month. No matter how flat I throw this one it is just straight with fade. My Pearly Champ and G-Star has a bit of turn before it Fades. G-Star Having more Turn.

I have however figured out that a G-Star is gonna be great for Turnovers. I've been making up holes at this local course near the house and hardly anybody ever plays there so I can do this and not worry about hitting nobody. So I'm throwing from holes #8's tee to hole#3's basket. It's a pretty decent Turnover shot. This is not certain but it feels like the made up hole is just around 410ft to 420ft. I've been getting close to it with the G-Star Beast being about 40 to 30ft short. It's a pretty good little made up shot too.

I'm starting to gt the jist of the snake strike putt a little more now. Where it's been a while since I done this putting style to me a bit to get the feel,but now that I have that feel again it's gonna pretty good for me. I think on downhill putts I'm gonna do a pitch putt just so I don't go flying down the hill if I miss.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:55 am

Throw the Beast right and it can be a very straight driver in calm conditions. No doubt some champs are more stable than others. Usual culprit is PLH, but compare the amount of dome too.

Champ Beasts I had in the past, from about 3 years ago, were 2 orange and 1 blue...all with identical moderate dome. I've seen some of the new ones in Innova's new champ blend that are very flat though.
Last edited by BentElbow11 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:59 am

BentElbow11 wrote:Throw the Beast right and it can be a very straight driver. No doubt some champs are more stable than others. Usual culprit is PLH, but compare the amount of dome too.


What is crazy the more I throw it side by side with my P-PD they pretty much mimick each other,except the P-PD has a slower fade while the Beast has a dumpy fade at the end.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:04 am

Well, that's a P-PD for you. Beast shouldn't have a dump fade. Thrown fairly low and on a rope, my champ Beasts would be pretty straight with almost no fade. A little turn, hardly noticeable, and no real fade. In fact they'd usually land a few feet right of center. This was never at max power though, and I was hyzer-flipping them. Match your 2 champs up and see what's going on, especially the PLH of both.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am

BentElbow11 wrote:Well, that's a P-PD for you. Beast shouldn't have a dump fade. Thrown fairly low and on a rope, my champ Beasts would be pretty straight with almost no fade. A little turn, hardly noticeable, and no real fade. In fact they'd usually land a few feet right of center. This was never at max power though, and I was hyzer-flipping them. Match your 2 champs up and see what's going on, especially the PLH of both.


Well the thing is on both of those Champs. One is old mold and one is new mold. The Wings are very different on them,but where my Old Pearly Champion one is from 2004 I think, it's pretty worn and flies pretty straight for me.

It must be how I throw them as to why I'm getting that fade. Maybe it isn't dump fade,but it's still about a good 20ft straight to left fade at the end of it's flight.

I got to run some errand man. I'll try to be back on later. Movie night with the woman. 8)
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:23 am

Oh, you mean one of them is the original overstable Beast mold? The new mold Beast should be flying less stable than the old mold, worn or not.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:30 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:Oh, you mean one of them is the original overstable Beast mold? The new mold Beast should be flying less stable than the old mold, worn or not.


Yes but it is very worn in and flies just like a brand new Beast of today.

While I was running my errands I kind of snuck to the course for about 30 minutes and drove that long hole with the Beasts some more. My arm was still a little sore,but I did it anyways.

My Champion is freakishly Stable,you would have to throw it to see it's flight and the fade it has. Both my G-Star and Old Mold Champion has more of an S-Flight. There is still some good fade at the end,but I don't have a Monster arm so that may be why it has fade or it could be the hole. I did break 400ft finally with my Newer Champion and my G-Star Beast Earlier today. On that long Straight hole when I get it on the edge of the hill leading up to the basket that is right around the 400ft mark. I was probably pushing maybe 405ft with those 2 shots.

I did However notice that my Discs fly better when I just use a Regular X Step and not one that has 4 or 5 steps. Something about when I add those steps in it messes with my hips or opens them up or something. I just know that using a regular X-Step I can feel the disc rip out of my hand better plus I can hear an audible snap sometimes. The only reason I figured this out was when I was working on just snap and finesse I was just taking 1 step and throwing. Made me realize something was wrong with my form taking a lot of my power away. Yeah I still had my accuracy with a 4 step throw,but I guess over time I just got use to having some poor form I think and just keep using it.

So now I got to relearn my turnover shots again since I'm only going to use 3 steps now. Last time I used a 3 step throw was back in 2004 I believe. :lol:

Oh and movie was good. We watched the Movie Homefront with Jason Statham.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:43 pm

Oh and sorry JR I'm gonna bag a DX Beast. I found an older one in my box that is a 168 and has a few bruises on it. It's only use is a Roller and it's gonna be perfect for this one hole that has this crazy left to right uphill shot the whole way. If I hit the Angle right with my Roll. I'm rolling that thing way past 380ft.

I'm also going to be taking out my XXX. I only really use it for one hole and to be honest I think If I worked with it enough my Trident should do the job.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:21 pm

:wink:
UncleBrother2001 wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:Oh, you mean one of them is the original overstable Beast mold? The new mold Beast should be flying less stable than the old mold, worn or not.


Yes but it is very worn in and flies just like a brand new Beast of today.

While I was running my errands I kind of snuck to the course for about 30 minutes and drove that long hole with the Beasts some more. My arm was still a little sore,but I did it anyways.

My Champion is freakishly Stable,you would have to throw it to see it's flight and the fade it has. Both my G-Star and Old Mold Champion has more of an S-Flight. There is still some good fade at the end,but I don't have a Monster arm so that may be why it has fade or it could be the hole. I did break 400ft finally with my Newer Champion and my G-Star Beast Earlier today. On that long Straight hole when I get it on the edge of the hill leading up to the basket that is right around the 400ft mark. I was probably pushing maybe 405ft with those 2 shots.

I did However notice that my Discs fly better when I just use a Regular X Step and not one that has 4 or 5 steps. Something about when I add those steps in it messes with my hips or opens them up or something. I just know that using a regular X-Step I can feel the disc rip out of my hand better plus I can hear an audible snap sometimes. The only reason I figured this out was when I was working on just snap and finesse I was just taking 1 step and throwing. Made me realize something was wrong with my form taking a lot of my power away. Yeah I still had my accuracy with a 4 step throw,but I guess over time I just got use to having some poor form I think and just keep using it.

So now I got to relearn my turnover shots again since I'm only going to use 3 steps now. Last time I used a 3 step throw was back in 2004 I believe. :lol:

Oh and movie was good. We watched the Movie Homefront with Jason Statham.


Freakishly overstable champ Beast should be impossible because of the understable L wing, just like the Leopard. But I don't doubt you, you're throwing several Beasts and you should know. Makes you wonder what Innova might be doing to some of their molds?

Yeah, big run-ups with extra steps are a waste of motion and energy, IMO. Unless it's a distance contest. I use a small lead step with my left foot and then go into a relaxed x-step, concentrating on snap and the hit instead of speed/momentum from the legs. Much better for consistent and accurate drives too. Look at any video of McBeth for an example of this.

You're going to have cleaner form and get better drives toning down your x-step.

P.S. Rumor has it PMantle has a video up on DGCR where his "x-step" looks like a ballerina on bath salts. :wink:
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby JR » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:34 am

The sound does not make the disc go farther it comes from slipping out.

i have not seen flatter Beasts and will keep an eye out for one. DX Beast for a roller is a good idea as well as understable trick shots.

It is not a snake strike if you putt so slowly with the arm straightening rrom the elbow that the disc is in the hand when the elbow becomes straight. It is Newtonian physics that the momentum will flap the wrist staight thereafter.

My non flat third version Beasts flip a couple of degrees at 400' and beyond. My Orc flipped 6-7 degrees when new and it is much the same since i do not like it and get so few throws with it. Again i have no clue about how current production ones fly. My Beasts fade so little and late that they are as long or longer than many faster discs because of the glide. Wraith and the most overstable Flows are as long for me as the Beast they just fade more. TD is shorter and harder fading. Only flat hard P PD 159 approaches the Beasts being faster ang glidier plus later fading than other PDs that are easily 20-30' shorter.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Uncle B's Bag

Postby BentElbow11 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:35 am

I have heard that about the snap sound and slipping. But, I've also heard it explained that the sound is from your fingers snapping together as the disc rips out of your hand. I equate good snap with properly executing the late hit. A whoosh sound usually means you're coming through too fast and strong-arming the throw.

The flat topped Beasts I've seen are in the new Innova champ plastic that looks like Opto. I've also seen flat topped Orcs and Monarchs in that same champion blend.

Snake Strike relies on a quick wrist action, the opposite of "slowly". Any form of putting will be garbage if your putting motion is slow.

Agree that champ Beasts fade very little and very late and are very long because of that. Not in the wind though.
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