My Baseline drives before making changes

Post your videos for Critique/Comment etc..

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

My Baseline drives before making changes

Postby Mobius » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:47 pm

Hi DGR people! I'm very impressed with the forums, having discovered them recently. I'm beginning serious work to change my game, starting with putting about a month ago. Now comes the drive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt6fjEtBDCY

220fps at 240p. My camera can't do any better, sorry!

This is my story...

I'm in NewZealand and I've been disc golfing since 1989, in 1994 I destroyed my left ankle - with almost no flexion possible. I can't even get my left knee over my big toe, that's how restricted I am. and I also have a destroyed left elbow, with only 15 degrees of rotation possible. Fortunately, the elbow doesn't prevent me throwing. I often suffer extreme pain in my ankle, and that is why I tend to throw very flat footed. It's my intention to get up on my toes more. On a good day, I can *almost* run, or jog far enough to get across a road.

My legs and body have not moved fast or quickly since my ankle injury (going down a 30 metre cliff piloting a tandem paraglider, but that's another story) and it will take me quite some time and effort to begin training my lower body to move quickly, and lightly again.

Prior to my injury I was the course record holder at Queenstown Gardens, NZ, with a 13 under par, on the old object course. I managed to somehow take out the Queenstown Open in 1997, and didn't win again at all until this year, taking out the South Island Champs, Masters Division in Wanaka, against a small field, in extreme wind conditions. I only won that because I played smart, using the experience I gained after many many months of intentionally playing in horrendous wind in Queenstown in the late 90s.

That win, and the fantastic Lismore Park (Wanaka) course, has caused me to rediscover my love (Ok, obsession) for Disc Golf. In 2008 I developed Calcitis in my right Supra Spinatus shoulder tendon, and the pain caused me to basically give up golf. In 2010 I had shoulder surgery (100,000 kilometre rebuild :P) which fixed me up a treat, but I somehow didn't get my Disc Golf passion back.

Now I am 47 years old, and partially crippled, but I am determined to get my big, open drives out beyond 500 feet. My existing record is about 130 metres (430 feet) using a helix throw, downwind with my Dragon. Without making an S curve working, I max out at about 100 metres currently (330 feet).

I never developed even a walk-up until 1987 world champ Peter Bowie taught me to perform one in 1997, spending a week with him in Christchurch.

I am extremely serious in my quest: this time next year, playing in the Masters, I want to be in the top group, at our National Championships. I plan to do that by putting my way onto the top card. I have my basket set up in the back yard, and am making great progress, after trying almost every kind of putting style out there, I have built up my own unique style, combining many aspects of other great putting techniques.

I fully understand that it's drive for show and putt for dough, but I am currently in the process of attempting to get our city council to allow me to convert an earthquake-destroyed ball golf course, into a Disc Golf course. Have a look at the teaser video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzgCSpG_bg4

And the course, walk-around here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR9P7IIOy1c (32 minutes)

The provisional plan for an 18-basket course involves separate championship tees, for many holes, with a casual play length of over 1,800 metres, (6000 feet) and the champ course being at least 2,500 metres (8100 feet). This is considerably longer than any course I regularly play, and the open nature of most drives here behooves me to extend my range substantially, if I want to have any chance at all of getting low scores at the new course, and having a run at the current crop of top players in my country.

My advantages are that I am not working at all (Made a huge bundle on stock) and I can easily devote 2-4 hours every day to the task of improving. I am extremely motivated, and not without some vestige of physical talent. I was a ski instructor for over a decade, and take instruction well. Due to my injuries, I am far more in tune with what my body tells me than I was when I was in peak physical form - I could run up a 500-metre tall hill carrying 20KG on my back and had a resting heart rate of just 38!

To develop a perfectly straight pull through, I have connected 4-metres of light-weight bungy to the rim of an old driver, and use it to confirm and adjust myself: getting great visual feedback, from four different height attachment points.

Any assistance you kind folk can offer me in my quest to take the National Masters title, and push the Open players hard, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Chris/Mobius
How many escape pods are there? "NONE, SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
Mobius
Noob
User avatar
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:58 pm
Location: Christchurch, NewZealand
Favorite Disc: Wraith 167g

Re: My Baseline drives before making changes

Postby JR » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:45 pm

Welcome i think you might be the first kiwi here. I honestly can't give you proper advice without knowing more about your injuries and how they limit your throwing. Proper meaning safe for you and not asking more than your body can provide at the moment. Since money is no object i'd find the best sports medicine expert around you and consult him on how to get the ankle mobility and shoulder mobility up. Also have you checked what further surgeries/treatments are available and are you willing to postpone next year if those treatments allow a better rest of the life taking practice time off of the next year? I've been in two surgeries and this season was the worst ever from missing out most of the 4 summer months of Finland. I think i'm just starting to see the long term benefits of the surgery in May. You never can tell how long recovery will take.

Throwing flat footed limits your distance and twists the ankle, knee, hip and spine if it is with the front foot so it is unhealthy. At least in forehands for you. At least during competition i'd use whatever takes stress off of the ankle so a walking stick or whatever suits you. Because i think it will be hell to get the ankle working and a double pivot adds power. Meaning both feet pivot. A locked up left ankle takes power off from pushing with the left leg which in turns loses some of the leverage benefits of the arm doubly reducing the power generation.

You have to be doing some things right to get that far or the winds have to be massive. I've heard of people throwing past 120 m from stand stills. When the ankle can't take more you can still take one step with the right leg. I can't remember the name of the Californian disc vendor and world champion in GM probably now that lifts the right leg and arm up and throws from there obscenely far. Guys help me out what is the name of this guy there are youtube vids of him around and it would be helpful for Mobius. It's been a while since i've looked at worlds DVDs but he is in one of them in the late 2000s.

I need to look at those videos later because i'm going to work now.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11522
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: My Baseline drives before making changes

Postby seabas22 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:53 pm

I think JR is talking about Phil Arthur. I was gonna say to look up Ken Jarvis because he was living in Queenstown, but I think he moved to Dublin. Looks like you can gain more distance by getting the elbow/disc further forward before extending. I'm not sure about the flat footedness with your injuries and all, but that looks like another power leak.

Found this on the interwebz:
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: My Baseline drives before making changes

Postby JR » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:35 am

It isn't Phil i was thinking of. The guy i'm thinking of is probably over 50 so a grandmaster. He is a very talkative guy during play. For some reason the name Jim revolves in my head but it isn't Myers.

Given your ailments this has to be the most difficult video critique i've tried to do ever. So without knowing the limits that you can perform i'd like to review like you were in perfect health and i hope you can show this text to a sports medicine expert/traumatologists/surgeon or some such proper specialization. I had the luck of being treated by a guy that is all of those and long time doctor of the Finnish national ice hockey team. These kinds of experts should have a handle on what you can be with the proper treatment given enough time to heal after the treatments. So maybe we at DGR can give goals to strive for that the doctor can review and adjust based on what is medically achievable not and in the future after treatment in the space of x years.

These videos are aiming at baskets with differing obstacles and uneven tees at times. So i cannot say what your regular throwing is like because i don't know what you tried to do on each hole.

Check out the direction the right foot is pointing when the final step lands. There is not enough movement range in the hip joint to be able to reach back far enough for best driving distance. Which for golfable shots is the arm straight reached back extended straight or close to straight with the x step landing at heel pointed at the target, the final step planted also heel pointed at the target and the nose and the arm pointing 180 degrees away from the target. Both the X step and the final step land with the toes pointed 180 degrees away from the target for distance drives and around 90 degrees +-20 for control drives. The reason for pointing the toes, nose and the arm so far away from the target is to maximize the distance the arm moves in order to accelerate to as high disc speed as possible. Mr. Carlsen's thesis of top Norwegian throwers had only one correlation of different body movements from the bum up to the driving distance with a 95 % confidence level. His measurements showed that the farther the elbow was from the target in the reach back the faster the disc left. In order to reach back as far as possible you need to turn your back to the target. The farther the feet point away from the target the more body weight shift you get to add to the power generation. That way you can turn the shoulders back far enough for the arm to reach back maximally. The line intersecting the shoulders points much more than 180 degrees away from the target. IIRC some had over 200 degrees.

You get some heel pivot without the whole of the sole touching the ground which is great for not twisting the ankle. If you can raise the ball of the foot even more it's gonna give you some margin of error and safety against the foot getting stuck to a rock, root, whatever. There is a point where too little shoe to ground contact causes imbalance which not only robs much accuracy and consistency but also reduces power generation and distance so it is a matter of experimentation to find enough pivot, safety margin and power generation while maintaining balance. Normally you want to step very lightly on each step staying on the balls of the feet weight fairly forward just shy of loosing balance from too little foot to ground contact. That is bound to be too much for your ankle mobility and load bearing capability. The reason for staying high in foot/ankle stance with light steps is probably mostly plyometrics. The stretching and contracting of the tendons from the knees down adding a spring like action to the lower legs and feet adding power to the push and steps of the legs. I don't know why it also helps in timing, accuracy, consistency and balance after having trained that. More available muscle power + the tendons unloading the stored energy at the proper time to ensure keeping of proper positions of the body maintaining balance?

On a few throws your upper torso was tilted to the left from the hip. Why? Compensation for the disc flipping or forcing the disc to fly hyzered. For more distance you need to be more upright to spin faster like a figure skater doing a pirouette.

It is understandable that your follow through step is on the short side because you probably didn't move that quickly to have momentum and can't push too hard with the left leg i guess. Normally the follow through step should mirror the final step to remain in balance ensuring best possible power generation and timing=accuracy, consistency.

Again not knowing why you reach back lower and release higher with some disc nose up angle i can't tell if it is a form flaw or the way to get the optimal flight path to that particular basket. Normally you want a grip that with pushed down wrist leaves the disc at least with the front and the rear of the disc at the same height from the ground. For distance throwing is a different beast altogether. There the nose of the disc should be lower than the rear and nose is a moving target sometimes different to the front of the disc.

At your speeds it is easier to twist the hips to the right and turn the shoulders right of neutral. That will use the arm as a lever multiplying the generated power. Like seabas wrote getting the elbow more forward before you straighten the elbow is beneficial. Because it increases the the distance the arm travels and also lengthens the lever that the arm is. The longer the lever the more power you put into the disc. To get the elbow forward you need to incorporate the pause. Searching on it should provide more info. Basically the initial 90 degrees of rotation of the body from nose facing 180 degrees away from the target comes from the legs taking steps. If you don't move the arm the front of the disc can come to the left side. If you take it easy here with the legs, hips and the shoulders not turning to the right you can pull the arm forward so that the rear of the disc is passing or beyond the right side. This is the moment to push hard with the left leg followed immediately by the hips twisting and the shoulders turning next and the elbow chopping straight next. Followed by the wrist snapping forward.

Your arm follows through on a lower plane than the arm is moving on during the ripping of the disc out of the hand and before it. You should maintain the same plane to avoid flipping the disc late in the throw.

Your left knee is bent when the disc leaves. If you pushed harder with the left leg straightening it at the hit or a little before that. It would shift our weight from back to upright better. Adding power and lowering the nose of the disc for less air friction and reducing popping up and stalling because the wind the disc sees faces the smallest area of the disc possible. Which doesn't expose the bottom of the flight plate to the oncoming air stream so the disc lifting up high is reduced. And the speed is maintained better adding to the glide too for more distance. You are leaning back when the disc leaves which raises the apex of the flight and the nose angle. Adding resistance.

The second Stingray throw especially showed that you are rounding.

Like the champ said in not these words the cure is to pull the arm in a straight line at least from the right pec forward. Which needs pushing of the elbow well closer to the target than the right side before you straighten the elbow. Beware and ask this especially from the doctor. Is the added arm acceleration and plyometric loading and unloading of the shoulder area to the hand plus the added muscle and tendon shaking to hard for your body? Snapping harder is rough on the body at high power. I once filmed myself throwing in slow motion showing that the arm straightening from the elbow made the forearm tissues move from normal toward the wrist bouncing back to the elbow and back to the wrist again. Visually estimating my forearm diameter increasing at worst by a third. And i'm not that muscular. Such shape change could be expected from a weight lifter but not from a relatively out of shape guy. Yikes.

With your injuries i think you should always warm up well and do a cooling down exercise after throwing. Stretching before and after the exercise and a little massage can't help. Some use foam rollers but you can do a lot with the arms. I also wouldn't start throwing hard at first but do only short smooth throws. I'd emphasize smoothness of motions in your form to spare the body. Yanking hard and getting all places to shake a lot will not treat the injured tissues kindly.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11522
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: My Baseline drives before making changes

Postby JR » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:19 am

I've been meaning to write this but have always forgotten it by the time i've gotten to my computer. Considering your ankle injury i'd switch to pivot hop step to relieve the stresses put on the left ankle. There are probably lots of videos on Youtube about Dave Feldberg teaching this. Off the top of my head i can't remember if he went into detail with this on Disc Golf Monthly instructional videos in episodes i think 94 and 95 but you should check those out.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11522
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace


Return to Video Critique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest