Strong arming my throw...anything else?

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Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8odVkgn9zms

Filming one's self is great for seeing how things are not quite working properly. I notice that my arm moves forward too soon, which actually slows the rotation of my shoulders and takes power away, and I'm making adjustments now. I'm also trying to turn my torso/shoulders to get the right rhythm.

Any other comments/suggestions?
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby readysetstab » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:31 am

you're not utilizing the hit, but that has a lot to do with timing and you just pointed out that you're going to work on that. feeling the hit would be easier if you try a straighter motion with your arm. right now it looks like you have a bit too much arch in your swing. i think it would help you to watch masterbeato's "working from the hit backward" video a few times and work on throwing from close to your chest.

acceleration will also help you feel the hit. if you accelerate late, you'll release the disc later and will get more of a "rip" feeling.

your head seems nearly locked. not necessarily a bad thing, but you can't get much of a reach back if you don't move your head back at all. it's freaky to take your eyes away from your target at all, but it will help with distance. a straighter reach back and pull will help with accuracy where taking your eyes away hurts. in the end you'll be more accurate. but note, keeping your eyes foward for upshots is pretty useful and usually more accurate since you don't need that extra power.

try getting a little lower with your body for balance, also. maybe just bend your knees or bend at the waiste a bit. it's usually a slightly different mix for everyone as we all have a different core (center of gravity). seems like you're struggling just to regain your footing after you launch. if you're more balanced during the throw you'll be more accurate and you won't look like you just tripped on a rock in your follow through. :)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby Toomes » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:09 am

Balance should be the first thing you work on. You've got way too much unnecessary body movement. You need to be smoother and more compact. There's more I could say, but readysetstab covered a lot of it.
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JR » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:45 am

In addition to the other comments I'd like to see you stay on the balls of your feet with each step. Light steps all the way. A harder left leg push after the plant step and a violent hip twist thereafter will generate more power.

You keep your eyes on the target and kick up the rear leg which is good for accuracy. Not foe maximum power. The thing you could improve the most with is getting your weight forward more. Which is easy with kicking the left leg up before the release. The most important thing along with not strong arming :-) Both are of prime concern. You're quite far along the way already so it's looking good for you. Keep up the good work and you'll get quite competent.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:50 pm

Wow, great stuff! Thanks a lot for the feedback. Now I'm noticing things I didn't see before. BTW, I've been playing for just a little more than a year, but I really love the game and want to get myself to the next level in the coming year (by which I mean attaining 350' drives with decent accuracy, putting consistently, and chalking up many more birdies on the course).

I've just watched the "working from the hit back" by masterbeato, and it does indeed seem really helpful (it makes me want to go out and practice). I've known for some time that my hit was not working properly, but only recently realized that I would never have that until I fixed my timing issues. I have read Blake T's articles on throwing technique, but having this video as a reference is really very useful (this kind of stuff is often difficult to describe in words).

It is true that my eyes-on-target thing helped accuracy, but limited distance. I could throw 225'-250' across a local soccer field and into the goal on the other side almost every time (this made my approach game on the course go quite well). But I had plateau-ed in distance, not able to get to the 300' mark backhand (such that on long holes I would need a really good approach game just to make par...I was a par machine, but very few birdies except on short holes). I've also begun working on my forehand again, for which I get more distance but less consistency (my first 4 months playing was almost exclusively forehand with an old beat-up Banshee, then I lost that disc and decided to stop forehanding for a while to develop a backhand...I want to do both well in the long run).

My balance has improved slightly with better shoes, but thanks to your comments I can also see the leg kicking up early, how it inevitably slows my rotation (ice-skater analogy), and how I take away the opportunity for the leg to push off more powerfully later and contribute to rotation of my torso. I'll be working on keeping on the balls of my feet, and lowering and shifting my center of gravity forward to maintain balance.

I played a round the other day, and several things have already changed now that I started to concentrate on pivoting and pulling through later in the throw. My accuracy went to hell really fast, but I know this is a one-step back for two-steps forward process. But I need to keep focus on the hit, and things will improve.

Anyways, when I get my throw firing better, I'll post another video to update all of you on the progress that your advice is helping to make possible. Thanks again!
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby readysetstab » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:53 pm

if you want to be as good at putting as everything else, make sure you work on it just as much or more. putting is something that needs practice no matter how much you know or how good you are. good putting will save you as many strokes as throwing an extra 200ft.

glad we helped!
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:21 pm

readysetstab wrote:if you want to be as good at putting as everything else, make sure you work on it just as much or more. putting is something that needs practice no matter how much you know or how good you are. good putting will save you as many strokes as throwing an extra 200ft.

glad we helped!


Thanks, and yes, putting is also on my radar to improve. I've been buying different putters and still having trouble getting consistency. At this point I shouldn't be missing anything under 10' but on bad days I seem to miss everything longer than 5'. On better days I can hit up to 20' about 50% of the time. For my current goal, I would like to improve to 80-90% success at up to 30'. Much of my trouble has to do with my release...I'm going to try some lower profile rims (I just ordered a XD and a Putt'r to try out) as the ones I've been using (Magnet, Polecat) seem to get hung up on my fingertips and deflected in random directions right or left (I should probably go to a fan grip or something like that). I don't have much trouble with the height of the disc flight, just right or left stuff. I'm also playing some rough courses (cliffs behind the basket, etc.) and I don't take advantage of the practice putting areas as often as I should.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby Jesse B 707 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:28 pm

id recommend this grip for putting http://innovadiscs.com/tips/images/grips/P1010036.jpg nothing else really competes imo, id also look into getting one ofthe putters that are widely regarded as the best (Wizard,Challenger,KC aviar,Banger GT,Voodoo.etc) because........well they are the best
http://ufosdg.org/
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:51 pm

Jesse B 707 wrote:id recommend this grip for putting http://innovadiscs.com/tips/images/grips/P1010036.jpg nothing else really competes imo, id also look into getting one ofthe putters that are widely regarded as the best (Wizard,Challenger,KC aviar,Banger GT,Voodoo.etc) because........well they are the best


This seems like a good grip. I'll try it. Mine has the index finger under the rim, which is is where the hang up is. I just saw masterbeato's putting video and I like this idea of really pushing off the heel of the hand.

I have an aviar that I like, but it is a collector's item (from the Sierra Nevada brewery in Chico, CA) so I don't use it. I'll get another. I hear really good things about the Putt'r, and it also seems to be widely regarded as the best.

My soft magnet is really good for situations where you want the disc to drop dead upon/if hitting the ground, and where rolling away is not an option. I noticed there is a soft Challenger, which I'll check out as well for these situations.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:37 pm

Quick report: I went out today to a course that was mostly empty and threw a few hundred shots with all my drivers using the short bent arm with no run-up, as shown in the first step of masterbeato's driving video, and focusing on the acceleration. I launched a few up too high before I got the feel a bit and brought my weight forward a bit and over the discs, which helped keep the throws down. Then I was starting to feel the hit a little, and I could tell that the discs were already flying with more rotation than usual. I could feel the tip of my index finger growing numb after a volley (is this usual?). Anyways, no run-up, no reach back, and I was getting the discs out to about 250', which was my usual distance with my older-style throw including a reach back, x-step, etc..

This seems very promising! I'm going to keep working on the short arm until I feel the hit more. Heck, I have nothing to lose, since I'm already throwing my usual distance with just that. Then I'll go to the two-step and get a little reach back going, following the video

Also, I did some putting practice concentrating on pushing off the heel of my hand, as shown in masterbeato's putting video, and that also began to work quite well.

Great stuff!
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby readysetstab » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:48 am

the numbness isn't really normal, but i remember when it happened to me. apparantly it goes away because i haven't had a problem with it in a long long time.

sounds like you're on your way!
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby presidio hills » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 am

i don't think anyone's mentioned that your off arm is not tight to your body through the pull. check out any picture of a pro during the pull through and their off arm is tight to their body as they pull through. if it's away from your body it is dragging down your rotation speed. it also might be part of the reason you're off balance after the hit. i think it's also messing with your shoulders opening.
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby garublador » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:52 pm

JHern wrote: I hear really good things about the Putt'r, and it also seems to be widely regarded as the best.
I just noticed this. I'd recommend against the Putt'r. It seems like it will work well but it's difficult to control on anything but shot approaches and is terrible when there's any wind. It sure does feel nice, though.
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby JHern » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:29 pm

garublador wrote:
JHern wrote: I hear really good things about the Putt'r, and it also seems to be widely regarded as the best.
I just noticed this. I'd recommend against the Putt'r. It seems like it will work well but it's difficult to control on anything but shot approaches and is terrible when there's any wind. It sure does feel nice, though.


Amazing, I'm going to own every putter on the market except the ones you guys recommend. And it is by pure chance, too.

I just fondled my Sierra Nevada Aviar and it does seem to have a nice character to it...I suppose I'll have to buy another that I can use. Maybe a Challenger too.

One of these days I'll find the right putter.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Strong arming my throw...anything else?

Postby readysetstab » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:03 am

nothing wrong with an aviar or challenger. everyone has different preferences for the feel of a putter and how it should fly. i would advise that you just use mostly what pros are using, because more often than not they've tried a lot of discs.

most pros use aviars, wizards/warlocks, or challengers. some use magnets, magics/voodoos, rhinos, or pigs (the last two are mostly for driving or windy conditions). beyond that, it's really only amateurs that use the other putters out there. that should tell you something. i've met one pro who throws bulldogs for putting, but he also putts overhand so he's kind of an oddball.
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