Issues with early and late releases...

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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby JR » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:04 am

edrift101 wrote:
JR wrote:Before everything else for level throws try planting your right leg about 8" to the left of where you're now and for hyzers at least 10" preferably 12" or more to the left of current placement. This is fundamental and if you learn compensating methods you'll need to unlearn them before learning a pure form. Wish I had known that earlier. also bending down more and not locking the right knee straight is one fundamental that must be right before continuing. As a practice exaggerating is often beneficial. Try emulating forward thrusts and backward evasions of fencers in fencing position. Thereafter proper stance (higher for DG) is easy.


Moving my leg plant is forcing me to pivot more and helping me shift my weight better. GREAT TIP! :D


Check my post from today at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10071&start=30 for more details. Glad you got the difference right away :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby jw34 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:42 am

JR wrote: Before everything else for level throws try planting your right leg about 8" to the left of where you're now and for hyzers at least 10" preferably 12" or more to the left of current placement. This is fundamental and if you learn compensating methods you'll need to unlearn them before learning a pure form. Wish I had known that earlier.

This is an interesting comment. Is it directed to the OP or in general? The reason I ask is that when watching a lot of videos I tend to see this. For instance in that Discraft long distance video some throw that way but I thought it was because they were doing more s-curvish throws. Even in the Cale Leviska video he plants left of his general x-step.
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby JR » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:34 am

jw34 wrote:
JR wrote: Before everything else for level throws try planting your right leg about 8" to the left of where you're now and for hyzers at least 10" preferably 12" or more to the left of current placement. This is fundamental and if you learn compensating methods you'll need to unlearn them before learning a pure form. Wish I had known that earlier.

This is an interesting comment. Is it directed to the OP or in general? The reason I ask is that when watching a lot of videos I tend to see this. For instance in that Discraft long distance video some throw that way but I thought it was because they were doing more s-curvish throws. Even in the Cale Leviska video he plants left of his general x-step.
Image


In general. Standing in front of a mirror you can easily see what moving the plant step landing area does to your posture. Check out Robbie Bratten for an extreme example of planting way left for an anny release in the Discraft distance throw clinic.

It is possible to contort oneself a lot but you lose power to my knowledge by getting the muscles all knotted up and risk spasms, tears etc. There's a reason why in the articles on the main page presenting correctly is favored. You can learn to compensate almost anything but you'll pick up a lot of inefficient and sometimes detrimental habits that are hard to break once your form improves. Think of hanging from a tree upside down holding a horizontal limb with one hand and the opposite leg and try throwing far from there. That's essentially what happens when you throw with legs and torso tilted for an anny and arm swinging on a hyzer plane.

In the video the guys do different things. Some hyzer flip some release anny some tilt legs and body for an anny and release hyzer that flips to anny because of the speed they generate on discs that are designed to fly slower and not be that high speed stable.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby jw34 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 am

Yeah I understand about picking up bad throwing habits!

Speaking of the main page articles (kinda OT) it is mentioned in the Driving Form and Technique article: "The swivel starts with your left foot, moves through your legs, hips, back and shoulders, the disc is already moving across your chest as you start to plant your right foot."
Isn't the idea that the pull is starting before the plant contradictory to what is said elsewhere and in the forum that "plant then pull" is the correct technique?

Just wondering.
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby gretagun » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:43 pm

jw34,

I may be off here, but I can understand your confusion with that article. The actual pull should not begin until you have planted, and the disc is passing or past your right pec. As you start your swivel or pivot, you are bringing the disc across your chest, getting it tucked into the right pec area and prepping it for the pull, but you should not be pulling hard at that point.

Others chime in if I'm wrong. I'm still learning from the MB video, but I think it is a common misconception to start pulling hard way to early. I think the right pec drills really teach you where to start the pull.
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby rehder » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:58 am

JR wrote:
jw34 wrote:
JR wrote: Before everything else for level throws try planting your right leg about 8" to the left of where you're now and for hyzers at least 10" preferably 12" or more to the left of current placement. This is fundamental and if you learn compensating methods you'll need to unlearn them before learning a pure form. Wish I had known that earlier.

This is an interesting comment. Is it directed to the OP or in general? The reason I ask is that when watching a lot of videos I tend to see this. For instance in that Discraft long distance video some throw that way but I thought it was because they were doing more s-curvish throws. Even in the Cale Leviska video he plants left of his general x-step.
Image


In general. Standing in front of a mirror you can easily see what moving the plant step landing area does to your posture. Check out Robbie Bratten for an extreme example of planting way left for an anny release in the Discraft distance throw clinic.

It is possible to contort oneself a lot but you lose power to my knowledge by getting the muscles all knotted up and risk spasms, tears etc. There's a reason why in the articles on the main page presenting correctly is favored. You can learn to compensate almost anything but you'll pick up a lot of inefficient and sometimes detrimental habits that are hard to break once your form improves. Think of hanging from a tree upside down holding a horizontal limb with one hand and the opposite leg and try throwing far from there. That's essentially what happens when you throw with legs and torso tilted for an anny and arm swinging on a hyzer plane.

In the video the guys do different things. Some hyzer flip some release anny some tilt legs and body for an anny and release hyzer that flips to anny because of the speed they generate on discs that are designed to fly slower and not be that high speed stable.



A lot of pros plant slightly to left. I think the reason for that is that it allows you to come closer with your pull to your right pec, than it would if you had to throw it straight lined up. Btw. Check the video of MB playing during that round. He does the same. His runup is from right to left
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Re: Issues with early and late releases...

Postby black udder » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:09 am

jw34 wrote:Yeah I understand about picking up bad throwing habits!

Speaking of the main page articles (kinda OT) it is mentioned in the Driving Form and Technique article: "The swivel starts with your left foot, moves through your legs, hips, back and shoulders, the disc is already moving across your chest as you start to plant your right foot."
Isn't the idea that the pull is starting before the plant contradictory to what is said elsewhere and in the forum that "plant then pull" is the correct technique?

Just wondering.


Hold your disc in your reach back position, then pivot your hips and torso without pulling. You'll see that the disc has to move some. This is what enables you to pull late. You have to bend your elbow to keep the disc close into your chest and by the time your hip pivot fiinishes and your torso is rotating, then the disc should be darn close to the center of your chest - at that point, you just want to pull as fast as you can while completing the upper body rotation. If you time it right, then you end up chest facing the target and your arm almost extended in front of you when the disc rips out.
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