Nick's driving videos:

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Nick's driving videos:

Postby ner02 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:29 pm

Got a new camera for work and went out and captured some videos in a field:

High Speed (300 frames per second)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-JHkazq6gM
High Def
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPgz8tJ0-rM

I've been messing around with my form over the past few months and am going to try and get it squared away now.

Most of the backhands I threw were landing near the other goal, which from where I was throwing was probably around 340-350ft. A couple went 40 ft past, a few nose up ones were 40 ft short of that thanks to the wind. With no wind backhand, I'll typically put all the discs I throw in the 325-350ft range. The forehands were almost impossible with those discs into that wind, but with no wind I can reliably hit 350ft forehand (with a helping wind I was pin high on 17 at Lewisville Lake last weekend ~415ft)

Let me know what you guys think. I may try to work up some split screen analyses with comparison to a different/better thrower to easily compare positions.

Thanks!
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Beetard » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:15 pm

Your high speed camera is total sickness.

One thing I can tell for sure is that you're trying to hit it too early. Keep the disc tight to your body until it is in front of your right pec. That will bring your elbow fully forward and cock your arm for a strong hit.

When I watch your video, the disc is only getting to your left pec before your arm swings out.

You have a good foot pivot, something that I have a lot of trouble with. Could you explain how to do it?
Last edited by Beetard on Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Orion » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:17 pm

Really cool camera work, I must say. I can't give you anytips because I'm learning myself, your throw is far better than mine.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby dgdave » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:47 pm

The nose is up because you're leaning back.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby ner02 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:14 pm

I certainly look like I'm having trouble keeping my shoulders square through the hit. Because of that angle it seems to result in either nose up, or hyzer depending on my release timing.

I've been trying to keep the disc closer/longer/later, but having trouble with it. I'll think I'm getting it, but then kind of lose my way. It's certainly necessary, because with the previous way I was throwing (swinging the arm even more) my shoulder would fatigue/hurt from the stress.

My footwork has changed in the past few weeks. After watching masterbeato's driving video, I tried to get the rhythm down and switch myself to be more inline with his timing on the footwork. I would start from a stand still, step with the right foot, then try to place the left foot behind it as quickly as possible. I think my plant leg is getting too far out in front, though, which makes me taller at release than at reach back...which also seems to contribute to the nose up.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Autiger » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:17 pm

That is some camera. What is it? On your form you are releasing almost right at the right pec. Too early. You want the hit to be later. Imagine the disk brushing your right nipple towards the crook in your elbow. Keep your hand on the other side of the disk for as long as possible and then release with wrist extension. Somebody correct me if that's wrong.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby JR » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:20 am

So far I haven't been able to view the HD vid. Youtube just keeps on loading. Great camera! I too would like to know which one is it. Samsung has at least one model that with NTSC shoots 300 FPS and HD at 60 FPS. The same components that allow low res high speed footage is shared by other manufacturers though from what I've been told by an owner of PAL version of that Smasung. Too bad we in Europe get 250 FPS at low res and 50 at HD.

To add to what has been written before. Too flat footed. A foot too long of an x step for your forward momentum and left leg pushing power. Legs planting in a slight anhyzer position for hyzer releases. Needs alignment for the intended release angle. Arm motion in follow through breaks plane down both backhand and forehand. Reach back has the hips in neutral position at longest point of reach back. You could benefit from twisting the hips to the left even more. Once you correct the x step to be shorter or add a run up that'll propel you weight forward it would be easier to estimate the final step length. My feeling is that you'd benefit from more forward speed before x step or shortening the final step. Considering that you need to move way more forward in the weight shift I suggest a shorter plant step perhaps as little as 6" would benefit but 10" or a little more may not hurt either.

Not yet trying to add a run up is supported by the fact that now your x step is more of a linear run towards the target with your right leg being unable to stay in place and you flying forward. Instead you should be able to twist more to the right in a spinning motion more than just walking forward wagging left and right. When you plant the right leg you should keep the right leg muscles loose enough to allow the knee to bend enough to facilitate weight shift forward. Once you reach the lowest point of the knee bend you should tighten the right leg really hard. I think your right knee bend angle is fine now so not changing and getting your weight forward comes from not leaning back and shortening the x step. Hope it works out for you.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:11 am

Autiger wrote:That is some camera. What is it?


Yes please. what is it?
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby ner02 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:25 am

It's the Casio Exilim EX-F1. It can shoot 300fps at 512x384 resolution with no time limit. It can also do 600 or 1200 fps at more reduced resolution. It can't do 1080p at 60fps, unfortunately. Have to choose 720p@30fps, or 1080i@60 fields per second (then mess with interlacing)

I had recorded a video a few weeks ago of my throw, which prompted the analysis, and found that I was getting the right leg too far out in front and jamming my forward momentum. That triggered the change to try and shift the weight more forward, but my center of gravity is still a foot behind my plant leg at release.

To try and keep the nose down, I've been trying to drive through toward the target with my left leg. In the process, I seem to be bending it way more than anyone else I've seen. It seems like the first thing for me to try is to straighten that leg a bit, shorten the x-step, and try to push with the left leg more rotationally?
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:02 pm

I want one.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Redisculous » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:50 pm

ner02 wrote:I think my plant leg is getting too far out in front, though, which makes me taller at release than at reach back...which also seems to contribute to the nose up.


I'm no expert but this is what stuck out to me. I've read so many people say that your heart should be above your knee at release, or your chin over your toes, in order to get your weight forward. In the high speed vid(very cool btw) at 00:38-39 you can see that your weight is not over your plant foot.

Also, you've seen the video with MasterBeato, your elbow never gets as far in front as his does. He talks about accelerating once you get to the right pec, it looks like you are starting way before that, although I'm not sure how/if that applies to your throw because you seem to be doing a straight reachback/shoulder lead sort of throw, not a bent elbow/elbow lead throw. This thread was a good read and may also apply to your arm motion: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9861
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby masterbeato » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:16 pm

yeah man that is some sick camera holy crap i want one soo bad!!!
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby ner02 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:34 pm

I may have to try getting out to a tournament in the North Texas area at some point to film some pros to have for comparison. It's pretty easy to use, I had no problem filming myself with a tripod.

I'm a bit upset today. I had plans to go out and practice, and it's in the 30s today after being in the 70s the past few days. Stupid Texas weather.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby Beetard » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:15 pm

It would be really helpful to all of us if you could get some high speed video of people who have really good form as well as people who have not so good form so we can see and compare what they look like in high speed.
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Re: Nick's driving videos:

Postby JR » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:35 pm

ner02 wrote:It's the Casio Exilim EX-F1. It can shoot 300fps at 512x384 resolution with no time limit. It can also do 600 or 1200 fps at more reduced resolution. It can't do 1080p at 60fps, unfortunately. Have to choose 720p@30fps, or 1080i@60 fields per second (then mess with interlacing)

I had recorded a video a few weeks ago of my throw, which prompted the analysis, and found that I was getting the right leg too far out in front and jamming my forward momentum. That triggered the change to try and shift the weight more forward, but my center of gravity is still a foot behind my plant leg at release.

To try and keep the nose down, I've been trying to drive through toward the target with my left leg. In the process, I seem to be bending it way more than anyone else I've seen. It seems like the first thing for me to try is to straighten that leg a bit, shorten the x-step, and try to push with the left leg more rotationally?


That's where I'd start.

By the way that Samsung model uses the same resolution for 300 FPS so it may share the sensor component that records the incoming light. And there are other manufacturers using it but for that Samsung 300 FPS is the limit. For form 512x384 when zoomed in on a thrower is sufficient for most things. Maybe disc pivot and grip analysis would require a higher resolution.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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