Some stand still drives of mine

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Some stand still drives of mine

Postby Fullbag » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:22 am

I uploaded two videos to Vimeo that I'd be delighted if you could critique. I've been throwing for about 2½ years now and I don't feel like I've had any major improvements in a while. I've concentrated on throwing from a stand still for a few weeks now to get my timing better and to be able to get some snap to my throws. Best of these drives were in the 330-350 range with the shortest being around 250-270. I hope to get some feedback on what I'm doing right but most of all on what I could be doing better. I'm interested in getting improvements on both accuracy and distance. If you'd like to see my throws from different angles I can probably do that within a week or so depending on the weather and my general motivation to get out there.

These clips were taken with my girlfriend's Sony DSC-T700 compact digital camera so the quality isn't that good. And for some reason the clips seem to play faster than recorded, if someone happens to have an explanation for this I'd be interested to hear. But anyways, here they are, feel free to be bluntly honest:

Part I
Part II

Discs used in part I:
1st run DX Valkyrie (175 g, new)
12x Star Wraith (166 g, seasoned)
12x Star Wraith (167 g, newish)
12x Star Wraith (167 g, new)
12x Star Wraith (172 g, lightly seasoned)
Star Wraith (175 g, new)
Champion Destroyer (175 g, lightly seasoned)
Champion Destroyer (175 g, lightly seasoned)
Champion Boss (174 g, new)
Champion Boss (174 g, new)

Discs used in part II:
Star TeeBird (167 g, lightly seasoned)
Star TeeBird (175 g, seasoned)
Star TeeBird (175 g, newish)
Star TeeBird (175 g, newish)
11x KC Pro Banshee (175 g, seasoned)
Champion Banshee (175 g, lightly seasoned)
Champion Banshee (175 g, newish)
And this is when the battery died on me...
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby readysetstab » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:50 am

hard to utilize your hips much when throwing from a standstill. whenever you switch back to a run up, or even if you don't, you need to get your hips more involved. unwind.

looked like a couple throws were nose up.

i didn't spot anything else obvious, but i'm in kind of a hurry right now, sooo... i'll look again later.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby JR » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:48 am

Eipä helpottanut toi wanhan ajan liikkuvien kuvien nopeutus liikkeisiin analysoinnin kannalta :-)

Yeah you really need to twist hard with the hips. Also you need a more explosive arm acceleration late in the throw. Not very äijä meininki there yet even with the added playback speed. More repetitions in field work helps to build more fasat cells and body control ability for that added explosiveness to the throws. And summer and t-shirts :-) I think that you could at times add more moving of the elbow forward before opening the elbow. Currently it seems that you maintain a straight line with the disc up to about the right pec and then you start to chop the elbow a little early vs elbow position nad the disc drifts away from the body.

I like your leg work which spins you around quite nicely. It also is fairly good at weight shifting but if I saw correctly you're almost but not totally at heart over right knee at the hit. I second the recommendation for trying to muscle with the forearm muscles to get the wrist down position and keeping it there until the release. More camera work helps in determining if the wrist moves up as it opens. When you get immediate footage of yourself it's easier to remember to focus on that. It really is difficult to maintain wrist mobility while also keeping it down and not tension the arm muscles so that the arm pull slows down.

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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby black udder » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:36 pm

With that distance and those discs, you've got some arm snap. However, I don't believe you're actually starting your power from the ground up. You'll see that when you throw, you turn both knees away from your line, then bring them both back through at the same time with your arm. This shows that you're pulling your arm from the back of your reach back. What you need to do is turn your right knee into the left, then to start the throw, turn the left knee into the right as you turn the right knee away to pivot. As you do this, the disc will move as your arm is pulled by your body rotation. You'll need to bend your elbow to keep the disc in tight, and when it gets around your chest, you need to pull hard and fast. That should give you late acceleration and more rotational speed and power.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby Blake_T » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:09 am

you are coming through too fast with the upper body. i know you mentioned that they play back faster than actual, but your right shoulder rotates too quickly to let your elbow/arm clear the power zone. the result is that the disc leaves when it's ~6" past your body (vs. the ideal of 12"+) without a lot of wrist extension.

slow down the rotation a bit and relax with focus on hitting it hard late. as of now your disc is leaving when you are supposed to really start putting on the power.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby Fullbag » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:59 am

Thank you all for your comments. I'm able to hit the practice field next on Sunday and I'll definitely be concentrating on all the things you pointed out. Although I can already say that I'll probably find it pretty difficult in the beginning as I've never really concentrated on my throwing technique before. But I am quite optimistic on getting some improvements done, I just hope I have the patience it will require.

And now a few questions on how to implement all of these great tips. Is the best way to concentrate on one thing at a time until improvemets can be seen? Should I keep throwing from a stand still or would taking the run-up back be more benefitial? Is there something you see as the main thing that I should practice before anything else?

Thanks again!
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby black udder » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:37 am

Focus on making one change at a time or focus on one new thing at a time. When you have that, move on. I say stick with the standstill then, when you have that working, move onto the x-step.

I also recommend doing this stuff on the practice field. Don't take it onto the course until you have it down. So... if you have none of it down, just throw like you normally do on the course. Then, let's say you have the standstill down, but not the x-step, then you'd throw standstill with your new improvements on the course, but if you threw with an x-step, throw like you do now - that is, not "thinking" about what you need to do.

That way, your course experience will be closest to what you do now and only your practice sessions will suffer :)

Once you have it all down, you'll have some inconsistency on the course until it all sinks in and feels normal, but that's expected. It'll be one of those two steps forward one step back for awhile until you can take that other step forward.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:28 pm

Blake_T wrote:you are coming through too fast with the upper body. i know you mentioned that they play back faster than actual, but your right shoulder rotates too quickly to let your elbow/arm clear the power zone. the result is that the disc leaves when it's ~6" past your body (vs. the ideal of 12"+) without a lot of wrist extension.

slow down the rotation a bit and relax with focus on hitting it hard late. as of now your disc is leaving when you are supposed to really start putting on the power.


I was going to say no exit power.

In too fast, out to slow.

More emphasis on the muscles of wrist extensions on the outside of the arm.

I guess I do got it. :shock:
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby SkaBob » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:40 pm

I noticed in a lot of your practice swings in your first video, you had some pretty severe wrist roll, and a couple of your throws came out at odd angles (particularly nose angles). If your throw is getting as much roll as those practice swings were, or even part of it, that's also going to rob you of power.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:47 am

Also, your wrist postions, and motions are very very good.

Your timing and emphasis could be improved as well as understanding disc ejection, but the motion is A if not A+.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby masterbeato » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:50 pm

try something i learned when studying a few sections of Tai-Chi 6 years back and it worked for me out on the course greatly.

this exercise is part of your pre-shot routine.

do what you do regularly but when you pull back, pull back in slow motion and focus on where the hit should be and accelerate out of it and force your wrist open. slow motion creates weight on/and relaxes your muscles and tendons and i have noticed that i have accelerated a lot faster due to the slow motion i did in my pre shot routine. so when you throw you will be more focused on the hit and where it should be.

slow motion also creates incredible coordination while burning motions into your brain so you will have more control over your body, and you will feel more relaxed.
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Re: Some stand still drives of mine

Postby bcsst26 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:57 pm

masterbeato wrote:try something i learned when studying a few sections of Tai-Chi 6 years back and it worked for me out on the course greatly.

this exercise is part of your pre-shot routine.

do what you do regularly but when you pull back, pull back in slow motion and focus on where the hit should be and accelerate out of it and force your wrist open. slow motion creates weight on/and relaxes your muscles and tendons and i have noticed that i have accelerated a lot faster due to the slow motion i did in my pre shot routine. so when you throw you will be more focused on the hit and where it should be.

slow motion also creates incredible coordination while burning motions into your brain so you will have more control over your body, and you will feel more relaxed.


I will have to try this. Right now I don't use much of a pre routine and I am sure that isn't good. I will give this a try and see how it works out. Thanks, little tricks like this can make a big difference.
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