OAT ATTACK

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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby bcsst26 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:31 pm

emiller3 wrote:Those are excellent videos, they capture the disc pull and lower arm acceleration in ways words cannot.


Yeah that is a great video.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby rehder » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:55 am

actually I wish there was a way to make them run full-speed as well. Acceleration for me comes across better in real-time vids. Its easier to see if you are hitting it right, early, late, and if you are accelerating at all
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:56 am

rehder wrote:actually I wish there was a way to make them run full-speed as well. Acceleration for me comes across better in real-time vids. Its easier to see if you are hitting it right, early, late, and if you are accelerating at all


Actually slow motion can show where the true acceleration is actually is occurring by using frame by frame.

The frames where the disc travels the furthest in a single frame is the point where the acceleration is occurring.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:26 am

Aaron_D wrote:I will get some anhyzer drives up as soon as I get a chance. You are right about continually posting videos, but my form has changed dramatically.

From here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaoAWr_gYxA
To here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4fo1o_ExDA

You must see a difference...


In the hit position? No... sorry, it looks about the same.

You have indeed improved your body positions a lot. You throw is much more controlled, and you appear to be a much better thrower in general now.

Hit position looks exactly the same... Maybe Blake or someone else can comment, but I just think you are working "in the noise" and not focusing on the only thing that will make a difference, and that is hit acceleration.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Aaron_D » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:33 am

can you clarify what you mean by front/back of the hand?
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:32 am

Aaron_D wrote:can you clarify what you mean by front/back of the hand?


Front is palm side.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:41 pm

The throw at 2:07 is correct as far as hand entry and exit. The fingers are literally pointing at the target after the wrist snaps. The shoulder is completely open at release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh-_TZA5r7c&feature=related

After revisiting Aaron's throws I think that all I would play with would the entry and exit lines to be more like the throw here. Sometimes he gets off to the side at the end instead of "staying in it" until the arm is released at the target (as seen in the throw indicated).
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby black udder » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:38 am

rehder wrote:actually I wish there was a way to make them run full-speed as well. Acceleration for me comes across better in real-time vids. Its easier to see if you are hitting it right, early, late, and if you are accelerating at all


Watch the body motion. You can see that in the first one, he leans in with his shoulder, starts the body rotation and glides the disc into his pec, *then* pulls. That's when the acceleration should be coming and when it does. His is the best form out of those 4 I believe.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby black udder » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:08 am

Aaron:

I agree with Brad with his pictures on the previous page. It looks like, to me, that you're sort of combining two methods, straight arm and bent elbow, but not adhering to either completely. Feldberg looks more straight arm. Just a slight elbow bend and maximizing the wrist extension and great timing. You seem to be doing bent elbow, but you don't come in tight enough and thus the disc seems to come out early.

Aside from you looking more in control, I don't see much difference in your throw either - at least from the waist up. It's possible that you're pulling from the reach back instead of shooting for late acceleration. It's sort of hard to tell with your arm speed and the fact that you don't pull in too tight at the right pec area.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Aaron_D » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:51 pm

So, I have really been experimenting with my drive in the last few weeks, and I think I had a revelation today out on the field. Basically I began to try and put the hit closer to my left pec. I know it is totally contrary to everything, but the moment I did that, I was putting my drivers out there over 430. As is usual with disc golf I believe I am doing something with my body that is MUCH more efficient and powerful but am not able to accurately tell what is going on. I happened to have my camera on the whole session, so I decided to make a little video showing the progression. Im hoping you guys can shed some light on as to why my attempting to hit it at my left pec yeilded so much more D. (Im talking 100+ feet)

The first part is utterly terrible and I am ashamed to post it, but for the sake of learning it is there. This is me trying to put the hit out in front and to the right of my right pec and have a two part swing where my elbow stops. Nothing was clicking. My drives were going 330-360 with the occasional 380. My accuracy was so off. Everything was going off to the right.

The second part is me trying to get back to basics with a stand still drive and a minimal run up. I was suprised these were going 350-360 with better accuracy, but I was still pulling everything to the right and my shoulders were going way off axis to try and get the discs to hold a turn over.

The last part is when I figured out my "left pec" hit mentality. Everything is low quality video due to the high FPS except the last teebird drive when it was getting dark which...I dont know how far it went because it is being thrown uphill, but I can say it would have gone 430 easily on flat ground and the OLS drive before it was a good 25 feet past that. I was testing different ways to pull my arm through and a left pec hit just worked. I have no doubt that I might not be doing a left pec hit and something else must have changed as a consequence, but I can tell you the difference was night and day. Another side note...there is no "snap" audible like I usually hear...so here is a good example of how much an audible snap matters...ZILCH!

Here is the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ADkyvZZxDA

I hoping you guys can shed some light on the differences as the video progresses. There are some good angels and freeze frame opportunities due to the 60 FPS, but I know 60 is still really low. Im hoping to get a reasonable deal on a better camera asap. In the mean time I would love to hear any of you guy's thoughts on the vid.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby JR » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:56 am

Transfer of momentum. Your legs were fairly disconnected from the early throws whereas the last one was quite good. The first throws had the soles planted and little leg pivot with a weak left leg push. The last throw was the best in moving the weight back to front while also turning the torso right even before the left leg started to push hardest and the plant foot was lighter pivoting much faster not wasting previously generated momentum in trying to break your leg.

Focusing on quickness. See how much faster you were adding power and quickness of motion to the last throws compared to the first? You seemed more relaxed in the last throws making you move and accelerate faster. Try avoiding over psyching yourself to "generating more power". I haven't been able to add D by tensing up the muscles quite the opposite. Looser muscles=more speed and spin=more D. Anything detracting from looseness=less D and a more tired thrower. Only if I was able to teach my sub conscience that this is true. To often going for it I overdo things reaching back and I've already lost before anything above the waist starts to move forward :-(
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Aaron_D » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:05 am

So by attempting to hit it at the left pec I somehow got my legs into it?
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby JR » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:12 am

Aaron_D wrote:So by attempting to hit it at the left pec I somehow got my legs into it?


I don't know the cause and effect or if they were related. Rather than to try and find out about that I'd like to hear the results of going back to the usual form with attempted fluidity of weight transfer and little sole to ground pivot with a focus on moving light and quick thanks to maximum looseness in the muscles until the elbow chop.
Last edited by JR on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby Aaron_D » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:37 am

I must disagree... Ive found my run up adds very little D unless it is literally me running up and even then it only seems to add maybe 10% to my overall D. Plus, footwork doesnt explain why my standstill drives and minimal runup were going the same D if not farther than my first throws.
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Re: OAT ATTACK

Postby black udder » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:41 am

Are you saying that the first throws and the last throws are different? From what I can see it looks like the last throws you start incorporating shoulder rotation and late acceleration. The first throw, you seem to pull almost from the reach back (right around the left pec). You're still bringing the disc into the left pec, then bouncing/swinging/chopping out from there in all the throws. If you look at the later ones though, you get much better ejection than in the first ones.

If you want to really try throwing from the right pec, keep your right shoulder pointed at the target longer before you rotate. I wouldn't do it full speed right away just in case you extend your arm so fast that it hyper extends.

I also won't say that it would yield more distance. I think the idea is that with more bend in your elbow at the time of acceleration, you have the potential to throw with more power. however, you also have to have the timing right and if you're not used to it your timing could be off enough to either leave you with the same distance with more seeming effort or even worse because you don't throw with enough timing to match your current throw. If you look at that set of pictures that I posted in the Snap 2009 thread, you'll see Dan is the only one coming in tight to the right pec, and that throw was only around 300'.
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