Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

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Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby JR » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:42 am

He's a friend of mine and is waiting to get his account activated here.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj1zmdm4vhm/mofoclip4.flv

We both would like comments of his form. Of particular interest to us and Snap 2009 thread check out the disc pivot.

Edit: This must be the most embarrassing mishearing I've ever had :-( I've edited the thread name to correctly represent the wanted user name :-D
Last edited by JR on Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mofo

Postby dgdave » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:28 am

I uploaded this to photobucket for those who don't want to download

http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18 ... oclip4.flv

The one thing I noticed is that he never gets a full coil and uncoil of his wrist.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mofo

Postby Banzai » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:09 am

Thank you dgdave!

Nice straight pull line. Nice and tight to the chest. Not sure what kind of exit power he's getting, looks like the acceleration peaks before the hit. Cool vid!
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mofo

Postby mafa » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:37 am

Thanks JR, dgdave and Banzai! It's me in the video. Did a primitive motion analysis on the second throw. Going to post it once I figure out how to post images on the board. The exit speed is approximately 16 m/s which is around 35 MPH so no super speed yet. My main motivation to shoot the videos was to prove to myself that hand really goes around the nose as Mr. Bradley Walker tells us. And thank you Mr. Walker, you really opened my eyes with all the cool stuff in the Snap2009 thread.

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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mofo

Postby Wyno » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:56 am

hello fellow noob :) echo the ^ and you gotta love a casio from above!
my two bit's worth: seems your wrist goes more open/closed/neutral than straight/neutral/open, shoulders look a bit closed at the hit as well, could seem you dont get much power from the legs?
Someone should do a shot from above and from the side :D
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mofo

Postby JR » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:18 am

Wyno wrote:hello fellow noob :) echo the ^ and you gotta love a casio from above!
my two bit's worth: seems your wrist goes more open/closed/neutral than straight/neutral/open, shoulders look a bit closed at the hit as well, could seem you dont get much power from the legs?
Someone should do a shot from above and from the side :D


Mafa and I were talking of doing twin shot of the same throw with his Samsung that was used for this video and my Casio Exilim Pro EX-F1. Both are HD and mine has a higher resolution and a higher frame rate and better exposure time controls than his camera in high speed mode so we might do double high speed, one high speed with one HD or twin HD shots from different directions. Possibly following the disc with at least one of the cameras.

Pros and cons of that and which combinations of angles are open so please give us your two cents worth on that. Also are there free or cheap video editing softwares that could match different frame rates and resolutions so that we could show the vids simultaneously in the same progression if necessary? I think it would be a valuable analysis tool.

We haven't found a perfect spot yet for top down throws so that we could throw with full power. We need to check out bird spotting towers. Mafa took the video in this thread out of town. We haven't yet been able to verify timetables of going to the European open. Perhaps we could achieve something there.

Perhaps some of the top players of the world would be willing to participate? Aviar7495 and Valarie would you be interested in doing something like this? Is HD high enough in resolution for you and are you interested in using the videos? I'm volunteering the footage free of charge for the benefit of the sport. I'm sure mafa would agree. At least with a bit of group pressure and arm twisting :-)

We're going to Tali Open too but aside from possibly using a ladder getting a top down video might be difficult or impossible unless we can convince somebody more adventurous and healthy to climb a tree.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby JR » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:33 am

MPC stuttered sometimes and played back the video too fast on occasion. Don't know why but the speed was ridiculous! When it played back correctly the speed was what I'm used to seeing IRL. Mafa said that the data from the camera was 125 FPS or do I remember falsely?

He could get more squared to the target at the hit with steps and this was just a standstill test of the changes after doing the right pec drill. That's what I'm watching for the next time we play.

Possible advantageous changes could be starting the disc further away from the chest in the reach back. Holding on to the disc longer would help because when I looked at the throw frame by frame in MPC most ripped out at 2.30 where 12 o'clock is the target. I've been so busy that I haven't been able to do a full analysis yet.

What bugged me was the inability of MS Paint to paste a functioning screen capture from this video to show where the disc rips.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby Ironhide » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:47 am

Nice throw! Like most people say the only thing is there's too much wrist action before releasing the disc. When you bring the disc back, picture a 2x4 on your knuckles all the way across to your elbow. Everything needs to be touching the 2x4 or could even have a little bit more of a wrist flexion. You do fix it about half way when you start bringing the disc forward though.

And if you want stills of his throw let me know. I have photoshop!

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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby mafa » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:50 am

JR, I second everything you said in the previous posts. The framerate is 250 fps but Flash Video doesn't support 50 fps sequences only 25. So in this video slomos are 125 fps. Here's now the data plotted from the second cast (blue Aviar driver). I measured the position of the center of the disc frame by frame and calculated velocities. This treatment adds noise to the data so please take individual datapoints with a largish grain of salt. The overall velocity is quite accurate you can see that the disc moves with constant speed after the rip. Comment: the disc accelerates from right pec to rip with an acceleration of ~140 m/s^2. That's 14 g. The force is thou only 25 N which is basically 2.5 kg or ~6 pounds.

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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby practically invincible » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:13 pm

Mafa... I like your nerd style. I did the same thing, but I can't find the file... I think it must be on the pro in one of the labs and not my mb.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby Beetard » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:40 pm

Dude, that is awesome. Nice throw and nice speed vs time chart!

It looks like in your full reachback throw you got almost to the right pec position, which is more than I can say about a lot of us on here.

With the disciplined and analytical mindset obvious by your video and graph, you're gonna throw far!
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby JR » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:12 am

Ironhide wrote:Nice throw! Like most people say the only thing is there's too much wrist action before releasing the disc. When you bring the disc back, picture a 2x4 on your knuckles all the way across to your elbow. Everything needs to be touching the 2x4 or could even have a little bit more of a wrist flexion. You do fix it about half way when you start bringing the disc forward though.

And if you want stills of his throw let me know. I have photoshop!

Image


I think the wrist actions before reaching the right pec come from trying to force the elbow into maximum angle when its forward. I mentioned the high speed video of DCC to him and mafa seemed to pick that up. When one tilts the wrist right of neutral as the disc passes the chest and after the elbow chop even more one can pull the disc closer to the chest. I'm sure next time he's Greenwelling by tilting the disc up at the right pec.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby masterbeato » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:09 am

mafa,

your wrist is open when you reach back (not good!), close your wrist on your pull back and let it open at the hit.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby mafa » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:30 am

masterbeato wrote:mafa,

your wrist is open when you reach back (not good!), close your wrist on your pull back and let it open at the hit.


Thanks! I see your point. Did not realize this until you guys pointed it out. So I should keep wrist neutral in the reach back.

Masterbeato, are you actively pre-closing the wrist or are you letting the acceleration of the elbow chop do all of the coiling? In my first throw (right pec with body rotation) I think I am keeping the wrist quite straight but then I don't see much wrist bending action. It might be due to the fact that the disc is moving in a circular path instead of more linear which you would get with a reachback.

I am still hoping that Bradley Walker would comment on the throwing around the nose thing and if there's any disc pivot to be seen in the video. I certainly am not sure. Looks like the hand goes around to 2 o'clock but if the disc pivots out I can't tell from the footage.
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Re: Video from above after right pec drill of mafa

Postby JR » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:00 pm

mafa wrote:
masterbeato wrote:mafa,

your wrist is open when you reach back (not good!), close your wrist on your pull back and let it open at the hit.


Thanks! I see your point. Did not realize this until you guys pointed it out. So I should keep wrist neutral in the reach back.

Masterbeato, are you actively pre-closing the wrist or are you letting the acceleration of the elbow chop do all of the coiling? In my first throw (right pec with body rotation) I think I am keeping the wrist quite straight but then I don't see much wrist bending action. It might be due to the fact that the disc is moving in a circular path instead of more linear which you would get with a reachback.

I am still hoping that Bradley Walker would comment on the throwing around the nose thing and if there's any disc pivot to be seen in the video. I certainly am not sure. Looks like the hand goes around to 2 o'clock but if the disc pivots out I can't tell from the footage.


I can get a lot more disc pivot than that with stand still minimal power throws but lack the finger strength to hold on to the disc on full power throws. The circular motion your arm is making is clearly visible when you look at the path the right elbow takes frame by frame. It's not going back to front. I think Bradley calls the disc pivot the jump of the disc from right to left when looking from behind the thrower toward the target. The disc also jumps forward too when the disc pivots in the thumb lock. The moving of the index/thumb lock around the edge of the disc from the outer side of the disc (opposite side of the torso) to front of the disc to inner side and hopefully toward the rear of the disc (mega cool if one could pull it off with robot like power needed in the fingers) is somewhat lacking in your throw. A full force index finger/thumb pinch late in the throw may retard the rip so that you'd have more rotation of the disc between the index finger and the thumb releasing more from the back of the disc. As opposed to the two o'clock release now.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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