New Drives - 08/15/2009

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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby garublador » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:21 pm

Try and pause your videos when the disc is passing your right pec. To me it looks like you're quite a ways off your right pec rather than right up against it.

This, too:

2. I don't know that your getting the elbow stopping and chopping the lower arm. Seems like it's one straight pull from when you do pull, all the way through the follow through.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby Banzai » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:47 am

garublador wrote:Try and pause your videos when the disc is passing your right pec. To me it looks like you're quite a ways off your right pec rather than right up against it.


Yup, the disc is about 6-8 inches away from your chest when coming through. That's probably the biggest issue I see.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby gretagun » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Man, I'm really struggling here. I can see that the disc is away from my right pec too, but I can't seem get it any closer without just starting the reachback from the pec, which is not what I want to do. Is it more elbow bend that will bring this closer? I have watched a lot of videos of pros and guys like BW and Beto, and to me, it looks like the discs passes really close to the left pec/center of chest, but then moves out away from the body at the right pec. Obviously this is not the case, but my poor eyes just don't see it :oops: .

In Brads photos, the disc apears extremely close to his left pec or center of his chest,
Image

but then to me, it looks like it moves away from the right pec
Image

It looks a little further away in Dan's throw too:

Image

Granted, it's hard to pause YouTube videos just right, even with BW's highspeed camera, and I'm probably just missing something. These guys have much better technique and can throw much further than I can. I'm just using these pictures to illustrate what I see when trying to analyze a throw.

I guess I don't understand the elbow chop either. When should my elbow stop, and where should the disc be relative to my body when it does stop? Does the disc stop at the right pec then arc away from body as the elbow chops, or does it continue in a straight line towards my target after passing the right pec? I guess I try to visualize my throw as pulling the disc in a straight line and my arm and wrist continue to bend to keep this straight track, but with this I never get the abrupt stop of my elbow and then the forearm swing open. Perhaps this is why my swing looks like one continues motion?
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby Wyno » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:02 pm

hmm I don't quite get what your seeing here

"In Brads photos, the disc apears extremely close to his left pec or center of his chest, "
I Would say center-moving-right, in this picture Bradleys about 90 degrees from target, elbow approaching full extension as dis reaches right pec;

"but then to me, it looks like it moves away from the right pec"
well, at some time it has to :) Elbow stops as shoulders rotate and lower arm shoots out. This picture seems to be right before the hit; the hand has left 9 o'clock, next is wrist and arm extension, rip, follow-thorugh

Shoulder might be a bit early (bit past 90 degrees in the first picture?), hips a bit late, weight a bit back maybe? But I think I can see how he generates power and acceleration.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby gretagun » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Wyno wrote:hmm I don't quite get what your seeing here

well, at some time it has to :) Elbow stops as shoulders rotate and lower arm shoots out. This picture seems to be right before the hit; the hand has left 9 o'clock, next is wrist and arm extension, rip, follow-thorugh


Well Im a sloooowwww learner, at least when it comes to athletics, and that's probably why I don't see this as everyone else does :D This explanation does make sense though. My problem is I envision a proper throw as having the disc pass the right pec and continue forward while the body is still angled 90 degrees from the target, then the chop, which will open the wrist. Perhaps I envision the throw as being more linear then roational, which is why I'm struggling. To be honest, I don't think I have the slightest clue on how a proper throw should be executed, and will probably have to start all over yet once again. I think I spent all winter practicing the right pec drill incorrectly, and now it is showing up in my throw.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby masterbeato » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:31 pm

in me and Brad's pics there, the reason why the disc is far away from the right pec is because we are starting to rotate our shoulders and ready to rip. the elbow is no longer in use, so the forearm has to extend.

moving the shoulders + forearm makes it impossible to keep it in the chest and if it is in the chest the whole time, that is bad body placement/timing and it will probably not be extending the forearm or rotating the shoulders at all which would make it impossible to "hit it" and you would transform into a n00b!

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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby masterbeato » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:41 pm

black udder wrote:I could be wrong on this, so I'm hoping that Dave, Dan or Blake will chime in.

The way you hold the disc and reach back, the disc doesn't drift/move much at all in the reach back and approach to the pull. You pretty much keep it in the right pec position, rotate your shoulders, then turn and pull from the right pec position. While that's late, I can't hope but think that by straightening your arm some and pushing your elbow back further, you wouldn't get a better feel of the weight of the disc in your hand so that when you pull late, you would actually accelerate your arm speed. If you watch Dan's throws and now Dave's, you'll see that their throws start slow and then they pull late - you can see it in the swedish players throws in that video, especially with the shot of Jesper. At the very least, take a look at the old video of Timmy Gill to see how somebody using the bent elbow all the way really gets the late pull and acceleration.

If you're not seeing the late acceleration/pull, just keep watching those guys throw long. The more you see it, the easier it will be to spot and hopefully, the easier it will be for you to duplicate.


on this i am pretty sure it is his weight transfer. he has a short reach back but is a bent elbow reach back which is not causing any hefty amount of troubles.

i look at the photo and he is already planted (which is not keeping all his weight on that back leg at the reach back) as you can see in my picture that my plant foot has not planted yet and his does while all my weight is still on my back leg, then i plant and i start pulling through than all weight would be transferred to my plant leg.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby gretagun » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:30 am

Dan, thank you so much for your explanation on the pics of you and Brad. I think I'm starting to understand, it's just going to take some more time in the field, which admittedly, I have not been committing too lately. Slowly but surely. I just hope I don't transform back into my former noob self. :D

I also noticed in the pics where I'm already planted and you still have all your weight on your back leg. I definitely under utilize the weight transfer. I think this will be the most difficult for me to correct, but I'm hopeful. I did experiment with a straighter reach back last night at league, and experienced some success, but I'm hestiant to make any big changes until after I finish playing in a tournament this weekend.
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby black udder » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:51 am

To experiment with stopping the elbow, try some 1/2 power throws and imagine hitting somebody with your elbow. It will come to a stop and your forearm will swing out. Once you get the hang of it, you can focus less on the elbow and more on the power before it.

Keeping the disc in close to the right pec is ONE way of throwing. Some folks do not pull in close to the right pec, but they do pull in close to the body somewhere. What they have in common is late acceleration, stopping the elbow and wrist extension.

If you go back to that Feldberg slo-mo video in Sweden, you'll see he doesn't come close to his right pec, but he has wrist extension, elbow stopping and great timing to maximize his throw.

You're throw is close to the bent elbow technique which does focus on pulling into the right pec, so you'd want to do that to stay consistent with the form you're working on.

As long as you keep hammering away at understanding it, it'll come. Once you understand it, it's a whole new adventure applying it :)
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Re: New Drives - 08/15/2009

Postby arowan21 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:04 pm

Bagger j/k

I have noticed that you have started to reach back a little more. And i believe it shows in your scores (3rd and 5th in int and that 988 round). Your drives look really good out of your hand, they go straight and carry a good distance. Even aaron said your drives look great.
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