cruzduck's drives

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cruzduck's drives

Postby cruz duck » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:40 pm

Here is a video of my backhand drives:

The first two drives are one step throws with a star aviar putter and a dx roc. The next throws are with an x-step run-up. I throw a kc roc, a dx teebird, a champion teebird and a champion monarch. I did not measure the drives, but my putters usually go from 150 to 180 feet, rocs to 210 feet and teebirds to 250-270 feet. I don't usually throw monarchs backhand, I usually can not keep them straight.

I plan to concentrate on backhand drives, but just for giggles, here is a video of my forehand drive:

This was a rogue. It was a good but not great throw for me. It went about 280-290 feet, a good throw for me goes 300 to 325 feet.

Anyway, I am interested in improving my backhand drives. I would like to concentrate on one or two flaws at a time. So what do you think is my worst flaw or two?
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby bcsst26 » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:40 pm

I like the fact that you look very smooth and under control. The one thing that really stuck out to me is that you are pulling at the same speed the whole throw. You want to use your lower body and rotation to get the disc to your right pec. area then accelerate from there. You should be going the fastest as the disc leaves your hand.
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby masterbeato » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:18 pm

spread your legs evenly apart at shoulder width and do not pick that foot up when you reach back, keep it planted.

another thing i noticed:

you are swooping your arm in a pendulum motion. pendulum activity should be with the shoulders, not with the arm. pull the disc through your chest. pull back is when your right shoulder drops under your opposite shoulder and on release it should end higher than your opposite shoulder (hyzer flip technique speaking). thats the pendulum motion explained with the shoulders.

work on releasing the disc out in front of you. that is best done doing the right pec drill.

the right pec drill focuses on key components like:

1. hit point-releasing the disc out in front
2. focuses inside the power zone
3. forces wrist to go from closed-to open (wrist extension)
4. timing
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby JHern » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:41 am

cruz duck wrote:Here is a video of my backhand drives:

Aren't you driving holes 6 and 15 at DeLa in these vids?

On your forehand: you aren't getting much, if any, whip action. Remember, start with the legs/hip/torso, and then the elbow leads the arm (i.e., it should stick out ahead of your body during the early pull-through portion of your throw), but keep it close to your torso to avoid tweaking it.
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby black udder » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:19 am

Although previously mentioned, I'd say:

1) Use the hips more to power your throw
2) Stop the elbow. It looks like the throw is really smooth, but I don't think you ever stop the elbow to maximize the chop/acceleration.

It looks like you're pulling fairly late, but by not stopping the elbow and harnessing the hips, you lose a lot of generated power. You're really just spinning on your pivot foot when you pull through, instead of pivoting with both feet and then following through.

You can get the disc in tighter around the center/pec area of your throw.

In the dx teebird x-step, you also seem to straighten your plant leg, making you rise a tad as you throw. Instead of going from down to up, I'd suggest up to down.

In both the champ teebird & monarch drives, you don't raise up or down, but you do get chest up too fast leaving your arm behind your left shoulder. This means that you're releasing away from your chest and to the side at the hit

Take a look at some of Dan's throws and notice how he doesn't always reach back with a straight arm. See if you can't reach back with a bent elbow and just have the disc reach your back shoulder, not past it. Keep that elbow well bent, then as you start to go from 90 degrees from the target to chest up, make your pull. You might find that you'll feel a little more pop on the throw and get some tendon bounce. Plus, it'll help you eliminate getting your chest around faster than the disc.
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby Redisculous » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:41 am

Just an idea: try stepping further behind with your cross step, to really get your hips pointed away. When you reach back, show your back to the target, just try to get more coiled up than you are in this vid.
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby Aaron_D » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:40 pm

Some good advice already, but here are a few more things. Keep your pull tighter in to your body and dont turn your torso as much. You also look like your wrist isnt down and the disc is pivoting out of your hand on a nose up anhyzer angle. (this is okay for upshots and it looks like the first few throws were indeed upshots...which is fine if that was what you were going for, but for more D on drives make sure your wrist is down all the way through the hit)

Most of your backhand drives also look like early releases / slips. If you had better acceleration (start much slower and end faster) your 'hit' would be more definted and you would be able to control the release a little better. Also, you can pick up your plant foot, but definitely put it down long before you start your pull...especially with the x-step drives. On the stand stills dont pick it up but rather just shift your weight from back to front. Start the stand still drives with 90% of your weight on your back foot, then shift to the front foot, then pull.

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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby cruz duck » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:00 pm

Thanks for all of the great advice.

JHern: Actually, I am driving 16 backwards. Hole 16 is a lot flatter than hole 6. There is a set of logs about 325 feet out on hole 16. I set my camera on the logs and was driving back towards the tee.

So I have heard the following advice:

1) I am pulling too fast too soon, I should start slowly and explode at the end

2) Forget the one step, work on standstill throws

3) Flatten my arm pull, swoop my shoulders, not my arm

4) Use the right pec drill to learn to release the disc later

5) Use the hips more to power your throw

6) Stop the elbow.

7) Get the disc in tighter to my body

8) Don't straighten the plant leg, go down instead

9) Don't get chest up too fast

10) Reach back with bent elbow

11) try stepping further behind with my cross step

12) Keep wrist down all the way through the pull

13) Avoid early release/slips

14) Plant foot long before starting pull

15) In standstill, keep 90% weight on back foot, shift weight, then pull

Wow, lots to work on. Where to start?

Clearly this is too much to change at once. So I think I would like to start working on:

A) Work on a standstill drive, shift weight, pull, swoop shoulders not arm, keep disc close to body, start slow, accelerate late, keep wrist down

Once I have mastered that, then I can take on some of the other items. Actually, I should probably take another video at that point and see if the rest of the issues are still there or if new issues arise.

Have I missed anything? Does the plan make sense?

Thanks again for the great advice
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby black udder » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:01 pm

There's a lot there. A lot of it sort of plays off other stuff, so it's not like the list is really that long.

I mentioned bending your elbow more as a drill type thing. You do that and pull the disc into your armpit before throwing and it's basically the right pec drill with some momentum. That should help you feel the tendon bounce and some real snap.

Try standing with both feet firm and pivot your back leg on your toes (toward your front) and on your plant heel, pointing your toes out front as well. If you practice that, you can see how you can get some power built up.

The pulling late thing is because if you pull from the back, you will be slowing down by the time you get to the front of your throw. If you start with your elbow bent a little more, then you pretty much just pull as fast as you can from when you start to square up. It may have been Dan that said to stop the elbow, it's like elbowing somebody that's in the direction of the target. If you do that, then the forearm should swing out and you'll feel the momentum.

The biggest things to learn are stopping the elbow and pulling late. That will get your more than anything I believe. Then adding power with your hips and reaching back further.
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Re: cruzduck's drives

Postby Banzai » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:54 am

All of the things listed are things to work on, but you should start with standstill drives focusing the main priorities:

1. Keep the disc tight to your chest.
2. Start the throw by weight shifting forward (in the way Aaron said).
3. Delay the pull with your arm as long as possible.

This will fix some of the other things that are happening all by itself. (For example, early slips are most often caused by bad timing.)
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