technique fix day 5 - question about holding on too long

[josser]

how is this coming along?

Thanks for asking. I have only managed to hit the field once since "Day 5" due to all the fun stuff that the long weekend had to offer me.

I went out and worked pretty hard on the aiming pointers and found that the visual lock with my target really helped with both the aiming and the shoulder slow down issues. I also worked quite a bit on getting my weight initially over my back foot instead of neutral. I took some video and watched the MB working from the hit back video to do some comparisons...

I noticed that when I do the twist-back (instead of reach-back) that I don't keep the disc to my pec during the time when I start to straighten out before the acceleration explosion.

When I was concentrating on the weight shift, I could tell that I was trying to accelerate from the twist-back position instead of from the "right-pec" position. So I need to put in some more time on the weight-shift timing to try to get a good weight shift at the same time as having the slower motion between being twisted and getting to the shoulders parallel to the target position.

I am planning on having another session or two and then posting some videos assuming I have either made some progress or become confused.

[Blake_T]

I went out and worked pretty hard on the aiming pointers and found that the visual lock with my target really helped with both the aiming and the shoulder slow down issues. I also worked quite a bit on getting my weight initially over my back foot instead of neutral. I took some video and watched the MB working from the hit back video to do some comparisons...

so no more 90 degree grip locks at least

[josser]

so no more 90 degree grip locks at least

Nope. Cured myself of that one. Fortunately those didn't hurt at all!

[josser]

I added video from day 7 of working on my technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqikO9Bo_ck.

Today I continued to work on aiming and the aim was only slightly to the left (remember I'm left handed) of my desired target. This video is at the end of the day after throwing about 80 discs where I was really trying to keep my reach-back or twist-back nice and slow until getting to front peck and then having the good acceleration. On this particular video, I ended up holding onto the disc a little longer than my typical shot during the day.

I took some video from under me (nowhere to put a camera above) and saw two things that I thought I was doing ok at, but it turns out I wasn't: 1. bringing the disc through close to the chest. I'm actually still pretty far away from the chest. 2. getting the disc somewhat close to my front pec before acceleration. I'm barely making it to my rear pec.

What I did notice from the video from beneath is that I the disc is rotating around my pinch point and ripping out instead of how I was previously just releasing it. And it is ripping out at 9 o'clock (aka left-hander's 3 o'clock) AND my chest is open about 45 degrees to the target when the disc comes out. YAY!!!

I was also trying to work on chopping/stopping my elbow. I have to say that I am trying to visualize what this should look like when I'm throwing, but I can't get my body to cooperate. I did as BU suggested and tried some softer approach shots to try to get the feel. I think I managed to slow down my shoulder a bit and get my elbow to slow down as well at chopping time, but when I watch video of others who are elbow chopping properly (BW and MB) it still feels like I am swinging my elbow quite wildly. I will take any pointers that get thrown at me on getting that elbow to chop.



For my last batch of discs that I threw I broke out the full x-step just to see if I could keep the initial pull from my reach back slow and have some late acceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t9mG71ARZM. When I compare it to my day 0 video, I have to say things look a lot better even if the distance is about the same as when I was strong-arm-city.


As usual, any comments/suggestions/dissections are more than welcome!

[josser]

Hey gang. I have added some video from day 8 (which followed day 7 by a lot of time due to how busy classes are).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRDyxr7lmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsL6yxfsf5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKh7UqKNg54

From previous technique video help, folks (BU and Blake) suggested I need to get my shoulder to pause and get that elbow chopping. This is the thing that I am having a lot of trouble with. Any hints/suggestions on working on this would be lovely/awesome.

Other things that I notice from the video
- Need to be getting it into the chest more (not doing terrible) and start that acceleration closer to the front pec
- My head seems to be leading my throw instead of my hips leading. I suspect that working on throwing more from the front pec would help with this as this should delay my upper body rotation a bit
- Still too much early acceleration? I can't tell.

[JR]

You should be able to get a closer pas by to the right pec by reaching back farther away from the body. Currently your elbow is arcing not moving in a straight line. By reaching back farther away from the body then pulling in a straight line the elbow is gonna come closer to the right pec priming the elbow into a steeper angle from which it opens more forcefully. Also the elbow needs to get 5"+ farther toward the target before the elbow opens.

You could push harder and until later with the right leg so that it becomes straight. Also twisting the hips to farther left of the line your legs point is gonna add power. You're starting the arm pull acceleration when the disc is at the right pec which is the wrong pec for a lefty. Clear as mud right?

[josser]

Thanks JR. Let's see if I have all your tips straight.

- Reach back should be further away from my body so that I get a straighter line than when I am reaching around behind me. Working on a shorter reach back would probably help this too?
- Punch at the target with the elbow like MB says (gets me the extra 5" toward the target and helps with getting the disc to the front pec for appropriate late pull acceleration)
- Use my back leg somewhat like I would in a lunge where it pushes until it has become nice and straight and this will also help get more hip twist

These are good tips in that I think I can mostly sort out on my own how they should feel or look on video so can really work on them.

[JR]

Thanks JR. Let's see if I have all your tips straight.

- Reach back should be further away from my body so that I get a straighter line than when I am reaching around behind me. Working on a shorter reach back would probably help this too?
- Punch at the target with the elbow like MB says (gets me the extra 5" toward the target and helps with getting the disc to the front pec for appropriate late pull acceleration)
- Use my back leg somewhat like I would in a lunge where it pushes until it has become nice and straight and this will also help get more hip twist

These are good tips in that I think I can mostly sort out on my own how they should feel or look on video so can really work on them.

Reaching back farther away from the body makes pulling in a straight line harder because the arm is simplest to for aiming making an angle in the arm pull once it reaches the left pec. This seems counter intuitive and I've seen 500' throws that don't have this angle. If you don't change the direction of the arm pull from out to in you're throwing farther left than with a close back to close by the left pec for lefties. And it gets more complicated because the body i going another way than the arm and timing becomes much more critical than pulling the disc in a straight line back to front only after reaching the left pec close to the pec.

Punching with elbow is right.

Please do twist the hips actively and quick as you can to the left in addition to kicking the bag leg straight.

[josser]

Reaching back farther away from the body makes pulling in a straight line harder because the arm is simplest to for aiming making an angle in the arm pull once it reaches the left pec. This seems counter intuitive and I've seen 500' throws that don't have this angle. If you don't change the direction of the arm pull from out to in you're throwing farther left than with a close back to close by the left pec for lefties. And it gets more complicated because the body i going another way than the arm and timing becomes much more critical than pulling the disc in a straight line back to front only after reaching the left pec close to the pec.

JR. I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here.

[JR]

When the disc is by the left pec the elbow needs to move directly toward the target which pulls the disc in a straight line toward the target. If you look at your videos your elbow is pointing away from the target and is moving in an arc. When it should stay almost perfectly in place in every axis.

[josser]

When the disc is by the left pec the elbow needs to move directly toward the target which pulls the disc in a straight line toward the target. If you look at your videos your elbow is pointing away from the target and is moving in an arc. When it should stay almost perfectly in place in every axis.

Right! The entire forearm should follow a straight line. I remember now and am completely failing to do that.

[JR]

Actually the disc should follow a straight line all the time and the elbow should move in a straight line at least from when the disc nose reaches the enter line of your torso to as far out as possible minus one inch. Which is were you chop the elbow. Minus one inch to avoid injury.