Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:53 am

keltik wrote:i think a lot of you guys are missing the point with the right pec DRILL....it is just a practice routine to get the thrower used to making the late acceleration from close to the chest (using the elbow as the last power fulcrum).....meaning that the right pec drill is an Exaggeration......once on the tee pad the goal is to make a good, fluid, smooth, powerful throwing motion


I'd say the real goal is to make longer more accurate and repeatable throws with the help of late acceleration induced good spin to speed ratio. In the case of Avery he might have enough acceleration of acceleration rate left at the rip because few disc golfers are as strong physically. So he may pull off an earlier acceleration.

I would not read too much into the throw with the disc with the dark bar on it without asking Avery about what he thought of the throw. I'm not convinced that he would've been happy with it. He threw much better flying shots with his own discs instead of my worn colored one. That disc was just for data gathering about spin rate so I was surprised mafa included it in the video. IIRC there was a BH shot where I got no motion on the camera from top down where Avery got a beautiful rip. That needs to be published as well to do Avery's skills justice. And to show outsiders a more professional looking video.

Who cares that I was exhausted and risking life and limb when they see only a shaking video? I'm sure quite a few would have had poor videos as well with my exhaustion level. Sleeping too little and not being an Olympic athlete filming for days takes a toll. There's a reason why stress positions are used as a torture method. Keeping a camera still for hours is a work out when the camera is heavy and you use zoom in sloping country. Mad props for all the video guys. If I ever will make it to the level where I'll be filmed in a competition I won't be hasty complaining about the distractions of the video persons. With that said I'm afraid ladies lead group didn't take too kindly to me on one hole in the European Open finals near the green :-( Apologies.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby black udder » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:00 am

As I said before, I don't know that it's about getting into the right pec for everybody. Look at Feldberg's slow mo filming, he's nowhere near the right pec either. Aaron doesn't always get into the right pec, nor some other throwers. Getting to the right pec is a position and Blake's said before, don't worry so much about positions. Watch for the elbow stop, the late acceleration, weight forward, nose down stuff. That's what's consistent with good throws. What he does do that's similar to the right pec area, is bring in close to the chest to get the elbow bent and load the elbow fulcrum.

Also, you can really see where his shoulder rotation is in comparison to when the disc comes out. He is not squared up until the disc is gone. he's just about sideways when the disc comes out.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:16 pm

Best disc golf instructional footage I have ever seen... bravo.

I will watch it until my brain explodes.

Keep in mind Avery is cheetah fast and as strong as a bull.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby Wyno » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:50 pm

black udder wrote:Also, you can really see where his shoulder rotation is in comparison to when the disc comes out. He is not squared up until the disc is gone. he's just about sideways when the disc comes out.

JR wrote: I would not read too much into the throw with the disc with the dark bar on it without asking Avery about what he thought of the throw.

Look at the 360 throw as well, he's much more squared up in that one.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby keltik » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:52 pm

i don't think i took the time to say how much i like this vid.....i think Bradley you will have to let me borrow your mop and brain bucket after you get done with it

JR can you share how you did the dual cam setup? or is that Finish Gov't Secret?
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby black udder » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:08 pm

Wyno wrote:
black udder wrote:Also, you can really see where his shoulder rotation is in comparison to when the disc comes out. He is not squared up until the disc is gone. he's just about sideways when the disc comes out.

JR wrote: I would not read too much into the throw with the disc with the dark bar on it without asking Avery about what he thought of the throw.

Look at the 360 throw as well, he's much more squared up in that one.
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My point is that when he's stopping the elbow he's not squared up. That was a misnomer of mine for awhile. After Blake explained the elbow stopping, it made a lot of the throws from other players make sense.

I mention it because it's something folks struggling to understand can practice. Don't pivot the shoulders at all, just throw a disc and stop the elbow and you should get the feeling. Not a hard throw, just a light to medium one. Once you get the feeling, you can add more power and rotation of the shoulders.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:06 pm

black udder wrote:
Wyno wrote:
black udder wrote:Also, you can really see where his shoulder rotation is in comparison to when the disc comes out. He is not squared up until the disc is gone. he's just about sideways when the disc comes out.

JR wrote: I would not read too much into the throw with the disc with the dark bar on it without asking Avery about what he thought of the throw.

Look at the 360 throw as well, he's much more squared up in that one.
Image



My point is that when he's stopping the elbow he's not squared up. That was a misnomer of mine for awhile. After Blake explained the elbow stopping, it made a lot of the throws from other players make sense.

I mention it because it's something folks struggling to understand can practice. Don't pivot the shoulders at all, just throw a disc and stop the elbow and you should get the feeling. Not a hard throw, just a light to medium one. Once you get the feeling, you can add more power and rotation of the shoulders.


On a 360 you have a lot more rotation coming from the run up than in an x step so you're naturally going to be faster in turning to face the target.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:29 pm

keltik wrote:i don't think i took the time to say how much i like this vid.....i think Bradley you will have to let me borrow your mop and brain bucket after you get done with it

JR can you share how you did the dual cam setup? or is that Finish Gov't Secret?


Sorry for the brain hurt :-D All the credit goes to Avery for developing great form and power. I just hatched up a plan how to capture it and it seemed like a good enough idea to him to pull it off. Mafa did the video editing work magic. The first fast then slowing down stuff was his idea and syncing up the videos so that the hit is about simultaneous from both angles was his accomplishment. It's nice that I didn't have to think of everything myself although that was my idea to get the same data from the same most important time of the throw.

Thanks go also for Nathan Doss and Valarie Jenkins and Talin tallaajat ry the local club for allowing the shoot to happen.

You need to be able to edit video on a software and have an elevated place to film from and enough room for another camera to be on ground level. And space for the thrower. We were limited with elevation getting options on flat ground. You could use a ski jumping platform, bird watching tower, cliff, hill, building etc. Check out youtube for the user lcgm8 he has Tali Open preview where toward the end you can see my elevation, lower half of me and mafa filming Avery. Because my camera took a little time to start recording from pressing the button I said rolling when I saw the camera recording and mafa got his recording too then I said action and Avery did the beautiful work displayed. Avery directed the placement of mafa's camera on 360s and wisely mafa stepped back and used remote control for his video camera :-)

Mafa can tell more of the details of video editing if need be. He used some lighter version of Adobe's video editing suite the exact name of which escapes me. We had to "sync" (really just ballparking) video playback speed vs real time on our cameras. The easiest thing would be to use two similar cameras with the same control setups. In our case mafa's camera plays back events 5 times slower than real time and mine 300/29.97 times slower than real time. His camera uses NTSC and mine PAL but that probably wasn't a problem for the editing software. In the editor mafa did something either double the images from one vid or mess with the playback rate or something like that to get both vids to playback at approximately the same rate relative to real time. I don't know what the function is called but mafa moved both vids to were the disc would rip and mark that tie for both vids. Then with some function of the software he moved the beginning time of one video to such that both would show the rip simultaneously. Voilá.

Mafa may have done other things as well but that's about what I saw in the initial phases of doing a test run at editing.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:30 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:Best disc golf instructional footage I have ever seen... bravo.

I will watch it until my brain explodes.

Keep in mind Avery is cheetah fast and as strong as a bull.


Thanks on behalf of Avery Jenkins and mafa too.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby Star Shark » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:14 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:Best disc golf instructional footage I have ever seen... bravo.

I will watch it until my brain explodes.

Keep in mind Avery is cheetah fast and as strong as a bull.


And he works out.







Bitches.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:31 pm

Animix wrote:
Bradley Walker wrote:Best disc golf instructional footage I have ever seen... bravo.

I will watch it until my brain explodes.

Keep in mind Avery is cheetah fast and as strong as a bull.


And he works out.







Bitches.


Everyone is. Just about. I've read that Sandström wasn't the first one to reach 250 meters but is the 255 by Avery the best ever on flat land? So there could still be some that aren't distance bitches to him.

Jussi Meresmaa won big D 8 by not trying to break records but just to get to the next round by striving for consistency. 600'+ is a gimmicky thing and so much depends on winds. With so few throws per round ad the results not carrying over to the next round the Big D format caps max D record chasing. Maybe Innova doesn't want to change the record holder and pony up 10000$ initially and possibly more later as part of disc sales to the new record holder? or whoever that picks the format. If you got say 10 throws and the longest toss wins one could get a safety shot to ensure a good placing then go large for the 9 shots which should suffice much better if the winds are there. Unlimited amount of throws per day would also be awesome but a pain for the staff. And the fingers of the throwers at least.

My point is we may not know yet who has that 255+ meters in them because the conditions play such a large part and the current competitions really limit record hunting. Given great conditions and enough throws I'd think that Erin Hemmings may do well enough and maybe soon enough David Wiggins junior for example. And there should be a few others as well. Even from Europe and not only Meresmaa and Sandström that may not pale in comparison to Avery. But the non bitch crowd may be counted with the fingers of one or two hands for sure :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby Aaron_D » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:02 pm

MY MIND JUST WENT ~.>.*.<.~

JR and whoever else was involved in those videos....you are the MAN/MEN!

Best disc golf footage Ive ever seen. This footage reminds me of my disc golf dreams...like...I have had amazing dg dreams that are less cool than this video.

Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this video!
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby mafa » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:06 pm

MY MIND JUST WENT ~.>.*.<.~

JR and whoever else was involved in those videos....you are the MAN/MEN!

Best disc golf footage Ive ever seen. This footage reminds me of my disc golf dreams...like...I have had amazing dg dreams that are less cool than this video.

Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this video!


Thank you guys. More is coming. Sooner than later.

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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby JR » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:34 am

mafa wrote:
MY MIND JUST WENT ~.>.*.<.~

JR and whoever else was involved in those videos....you are the MAN/MEN!

Best disc golf footage Ive ever seen. This footage reminds me of my disc golf dreams...like...I have had amazing dg dreams that are less cool than this video.

Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this video!


Thank you guys. More is coming. Sooner than later.

Matti


You can start waiting for the third installment because the second one is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_ZqZAZDvEI
I posted it already in the thread Ken Climo in Finland 2009...
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Avery Jenkins drives. 2 points of view

Postby djext1 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:00 pm

You know, in all honesty, if you got (or already have) some of the best players driving on vid like this....and I wouldn't even mind seeing putting from further out like this too to be honest, you could make and sell a dvd.

I know I would gladly pay 10 or 15 bucks for a dvd with high quality slow mo driving of the pro's...

Hope you guys consider it =P
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