Critique appreciated.

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Critique appreciated.

Postby Banjar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:39 pm

Greetings,

I would like some critique on my form. These drives are all around 270 feet which is around 80% of my D capacity (maxing out around 330). I would specifically like to hear what needs to be changed, and in what order i should try to implement these changes. I'm learning a lot just by watching these, but please fire away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQSET1llDc

regards,
Kristian
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby jubuttib » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:54 pm

I'm hardly an expert, but we both seem to suffer from not getting our elbows forward enough, leading to us not reaching our right and left pec respectively. You also look really stiff throwing, try to relax a bit. Probably better off in the long run just starting from the hit back with masterbeato's video, that's what's been recommended to me and that's what I'm going to do.
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby Banjar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:22 pm

heh! - Getting my elbow forward was about the only thing I felt i did alright after watching these! :wink:

The glaring problems I see myself:
- weight back during release, looooong plant step, starting pull before I plant.
- not pulling on the same plane aka. "scooping" (what should I do? lower the plane all together or try to pull higher across my chest=not comfortable?)
- shoulders rotating from 90-0 too soon.

As for the Masterbeato video, I've tried it for a little while, but I always felt uncomfortable with the elbow that high. I also don't really "get it" I think. If the elbow is already pointing at the target, how do you apply power through the elbow? From that position all I can do is swing my lower arm out and leave the elbow where it is (aka, the full-body-cast with only the elbow and wrist movable) - I think that might be the purpose of the drill, but my discs only went around 100-120 feet - which is far from the 300 feet you should get according to the drill - I know I'm not supposed to hit 300 easily, but my midranges fly straight for maybe 80 feet before faiding. Maybe I should record that on video and let you guys tell what I am doing wrong...

All help appreciated!

/Kristian
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby jubuttib » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:53 pm

Banjar wrote:heh! - Getting my elbow forward was about the only thing I felt i did alright after watching these! :wink:

Yeah, so did I before I saw myself on video. =) You can clearly see the disc (almost) hitting your right pec and then getting away from your chest on the video. Grab a disc, place it on your right pec and tell me if your elbow really is that far out after all. I can get the disc out to (max) 400' launching from my left pec (RHBH) but I'm going to try and rebuild my form to fit the DGR norm, trying to get another 50' by the end of this year. Then again Avery seems to launch from about the same position on some videos, and he can throw pretty damn long. (Like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSZyYAVPbs)

The glaring problems I see myself:
- weight back during release, looooong plant step, starting pull before I plant.
- not pulling on the same plane aka. "scooping" (what should I do? lower the plane all together or try to pull higher across my chest=not comfortable?)
- shoulders rotating from 90-0 too soon.

I don't comment on that stuff because I've no idea myself on how to fix these.

As for the Masterbeato video, I've tried it for a little while, but I always felt uncomfortable with the elbow that high. I also don't really "get it" I think. If the elbow is already pointing at the target, how do you apply power through the elbow? From that position all I can do is swing my lower arm out and leave the elbow where it is (aka, the full-body-cast with only the elbow and wrist movable) - I think that might be the purpose of the drill, but my discs only went around 100-120 feet - which is far from the 300 feet you should get according to the drill - I know I'm not supposed to hit 300 easily, but my midranges fly straight for maybe 80 feet before faiding. Maybe I should record that on video and let you guys tell what I am doing wrong...

Where does it say that you should be getting 300 feet with it? Not in the video at least to my knowledge. Anyway, even the most basic form of the right pec drill has a 90 degree shoulder turn. I haven't really done that drill enough to know for sure (will start next week, don't want to switch up my form since there's a comp coming up on Saturday) but I think you're supposed to indeed use your arm from the elbow down, trying to find the correct acceleration point in relation to the shoulder turn, which is surprisingly late. Then again I might be talking out of my ass, I'll know more in a month or two.

EDIT: Meant to say "right pec", fixed now.
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby JR » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:26 am

Hi and welcome. Shortening the final step by about 20-25 cm helps to prevent the right leg from dragging on the ground. The right leg should push you forward not drag you down. If you move the left leg left by 10-15 cm for the hyzer angles you were throwing at you'd get more consistency and maybe a meter or few more power. That's during the final step. Because it's easier to pivot and your acceleration would change due to fewer internal resistances from various muscle groups. You should gain some meters from twisting the hips farther left than the knees.

You got the disc to the right pec but turned with the torso without pause so that the upper body turned away from the disc pull line. That left quite a gap between the disc and the left pec which didn't bend the elbow enough hindering snap. Wait with the torso turn (maintaining 90 degrees facing right of the target) until the disc has reached or passed the right pec. Then you'd get the elbow farther forward by about 10 cm which is great for generating snap thus distance. Turning the shoulders farther left than the chest creates more power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby terazen » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:10 pm

Try waiting until you can see what you are throwing at to start your pull out and it should give you a slight pause at your pec area. You're pulling the disc through at a steady speed instead of accelerating at the end. After you see the target pull out and focus on snapping the disc hard at what you are looking at.
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby Redisculous » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:56 pm

Yeah, your throw looks exactly like what mine did not too long ago. What really helped me was reading a post where Bake was talking about there being two 90 degree rotations, not just one big rotation. Getting the elbow forward is really easy, just stay relaxed and only rotate 90 degrees and whatch the arm/disc/wrist go through the positions. Once you get the feel for that, then add the finish.

Basically, you just need to slow down after that first 90 degrees and LET the elbow get up front.

Blake_T wrote:pause is a bad term for it.

it's more of a slowing down and then increasing in speed.

on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the fastest, the rotation from 180 to 90 should occur between 6 and 8. rotation at that point briefly slows to a speed between 1 and 3. this allows the disc and elbow to "catch up" and reach the positions they need to. the finishing rotation, that goes from ~90 to open should be between 8 and 10.

a fairly abrupt speed change will trigger the actions the same as a stop or pause would.
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Re: Critique appreciated.

Postby Banjar » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:05 pm

thanks so far!

I'm going out again tomorrow with the following checklist:

launch the disc (Always try to have this at the top of my head when practicing)
keep shoulders at 90 while pulling past the left peck
think about pulling elbow 'to the side' when the disc is at my left peck (when the elbow is no longer coming forward, pull it to the side to put more force to the lower arm centripital acceleration)
shorter plant step

Might be a camera available, if there is, I'll take some new footage.

/Kristian
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