RHFH Critique please

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RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Sat May 15, 2010 12:03 pm

Here are a few forehand throws, which is what I use for my max D and 90% of drives off the tee in general.. Much more confidence and accuracy then my backhand.
I threw a Z surge, red FR Destroyer, and blue Star Destroyer. I also have a Nuke for distance drives (not pictured here). On a nice drive I'm at about 300' with my Forehand... Backhand is about 270' and thats a struggle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41BPcsbYjg

Looking for suggestions on a better low line drive throw, basically trying for a more nose down approach. I get all the ways you are supposed to do it backhand, but forehand doesn't get talked about much when it comes to nose down.

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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby FierceTable » Sat May 15, 2010 6:10 pm

Your weight is never over your front foot, much less past it. It looks like following through would help with both nose down and distance. When you keep your weight back like you are the nose of the disc tends towards being up and you lose momentum that could translate into another 100' of distance. I'll let someone else provide more technical feedback.

Check out this vid of forehand and look at the weight transfer compared to your own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSZyYAVPbs
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby JR » Sun May 16, 2010 1:04 am

Your wrist rolls counterclockwise in the follow through. You don't get a lot of left leg push and accelerate the arm early ad the speed remains constant. Try moving the arm slowly at first and accelerating late.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Sun May 16, 2010 6:18 am

JR wrote: Your wrist rolls counterclockwise in the follow through. You don't get a lot of left leg push and accelerate the arm early ad the speed remains constant. Try moving the arm slowly at first and accelerating late.


Estentially what you mean is I roll my wrist which would create turn overs? I believe I've read in the past keeping your palm facing up to the sky is the way to go?
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby JR » Sun May 16, 2010 7:40 pm

Normally you wouldn't want to roll the wrist over because that's off axis torque causing anny. You rolled the wrist in the opposite direction of "scooping" having the back of the hand facing upward. And the angles were larger than the "scooping of water from the surface" needs to be. The scoop also needs to start earlier about when the elbow starts chopping at the latest if the reach back is short or from the reach back if you throw like Avery Jenkins. Your wrist rolled over starting near the onset of wrist extension.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Sun May 16, 2010 9:19 pm

JR wrote: Normally you wouldn't want to roll the wrist over because that's off axis torque causing anny. You rolled the wrist in the opposite direction of "scooping" having the back of the hand facing upward. And the angles were larger than the "scooping of water from the surface" needs to be. The scoop also needs to start earlier about when the elbow starts chopping at the latest if the reach back is short or from the reach back if you throw like Avery Jenkins. Your wrist rolled over starting near the onset of wrist extension.


You lost me at Scoop.. haha, but I'm trying to understand what you mean... Correct me if I'm wrong, but another way to look at what you're saying is that. My entire reach back and "pull through" would be as if I'm "scooping water from the ground"? And what I'm doing is that entire "techinque" right at wrist extension which is causing a severe wrist roll?

If I missed your point, perhaps trying to explain simpler, if possible. Keep in mind I'm only on month 3 of DG so a lot of what you said is all new concepts.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby Mark Ellis » Sun May 16, 2010 9:55 pm

It looked to me that you weren't getting enough body into the throw and didn't follow through enough for maximum power. So your form was good if you want to throw a controlled upshot but it limited how much power you generated.

When you follow through your throwing hand goes from palm pointing upward to palm pointing downward. The key is what your palm is doing at the instant of release. If you are flipping your drive over too much then you are starting that turn of your wrist a microsecond too soon. Watch your disc. It always tells you what you did.

Forehand takes a lot of practice to control and I believe is much more difficult than backhand (so a smaller margin of error). Some players naturally have better power forehand (just like some do backhand) so for them the extra practice is warranted. Try to learn how to make your discs fly dead nuts flat and straight during the middle part of its flight. Shaping shots is just making minor adjustments from there and learning the flight patterns of your discs.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby JR » Mon May 17, 2010 7:10 am

Try to keep the palm up until after the disc has ripped away from the fingers. The scoop viewed from the side looks like arm up at reach back and arm low at roughly the hip height when the disc is leaving the fingers for a flat shot. Then the arm moves in the follow through flat at the same height for a while and depending on if you're comfortable keeping the same height for consistency or raising for added muscle looseness.

Maybe a little more muscle tension for wrist orientation maintaining would help in keeping the palm up. Instead of turning the palm down starting just before the disc rips off the fingers. That helps to stop discs flipping from hyzer or flat release to anny. If you have never flipped a disc despite this switched upside down palm orientation you're using piggish discs and probably not that hard. I you continue using that technique you're reinforcing bad habits and correcting them is horrible. It's worse than learning the wrong way then trying to suppress them and getting a new form out and solidifying it. Because the bad habits hamper renewing and creep back up. Especially when you're tired or otherwise going back to automated motions.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Mon May 17, 2010 4:32 pm

JR wrote: If you have never flipped a disc despite this switched upside down palm orientation you're using piggish discs and probably not that hard. I you continue using that technique you're reinforcing bad habits and correcting them is horrible.


JR, You lost me there, not quite sure what you're getting at, except for the fact of reinforcing bad habits is bad.

Mark thank you for chimming in. Forehand is a million times easier for me then backhand. I'm guessing my playing of baseball through school helped solidify that.

Next chance I get I'll remake a new video and try to work in the things/ideas that have been provided so far and see how my progress is.

Keep the good ideas coming!
Thanks
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby JR » Tue May 18, 2010 5:07 am

I meant that using fast overstable discs mask technique flaws. A flawed throw like rolling the wrist over, that is counterclockwise, may not flip a fast piggish driver when a midrange disc or a straight fairway driver would flip bad maybe even to a roller.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Tue May 18, 2010 10:31 am

I totally understand that. I do have troubles with slower drivers and mids forehand, they do tend to turn hard and sometimes into rollers.
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby xeroxed44 » Tue May 18, 2010 6:52 pm

I just had an idea I'm not sure if that this help my issue or create further problems. If I hold the disc and release it with a slight hyzer (wing down RHFH), would that help with turning over discs?
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Re: RHFH Critique please

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue May 18, 2010 8:47 pm

xeroxed44 wrote:I just had an idea I'm not sure if that this help my issue or create further problems. If I hold the disc and release it with a slight hyzer (wing down RHFH), would that help with turning over discs?


Sure the wing of the disc is the rudder of your ship. For those of you nautically challenged, the rudder is the steering device of a boat. So you steer your disc by adjusting the wing.

This may sound funny but it is true. It is not as funny sounding as a phrase they have in medicine which goes, " The inside of your stomach is the outside of your body." Think about that for a while.

But back to disc golf. The wing of the disc is the rudder of your ship. The wing is the part of the disc opposite where you hold it with your throwing hand. If at release the wing is flat (parallel to the ground) then your disc flies flat. If at release the wing is pointing toward the ground you are throwing a hyzer. If at release the wing is pointing up then you are throwing an anhyzer. This rule holds whether you are throwing left handed or right handed and whether you are throwing backhand or forehand.

You may have noticed that fairways bend in different directions on different holes. The way you shape your shots to follow the fairway is to make them bend as needed. You accomplish this by tilting the wing of your disc at the instant of release so that it flies straight or right or left. So work on tilting the wing of your disc so that it goes down the middle of the fairway for the first 200 feet. Once you can do that competently then we will work on the next skill: controlling "S" curves.
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