Suggestions please.

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Suggestions please.

Postby Kole » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Cheers everybody! Nice videos here.

I'm your typical struggling am from Finland, looking for advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnFYsvknL-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMSVDVytMPU

I hit constantly 360-390ft. Maximum drive is around 420ft, every now and then (but not too often).
1.5+ years in the game.
double bogie.
Kole
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Re: Suggestions please.

Postby JR » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:58 pm

Tervetuloa. Sama vaiva, amatööri ja ongelmissa :-D

On keskustelu.frisbeeliitto.com>frisbeegolf>pimp my drive thread me representing common knowledge of DGR challenged by some very long throwers like AMA, fyhrer and Jaani (all 500'+ drivers) have had an interesting conversation, and it's still going on, about where to pull your arm across your chest and when to accelerate the arm. I watched Ville Piippo a Finnish and European champion train during last winter and the concept of late acceleration wasn't what he used and he seemed a little perplexed about it after me and mafa from this board described the basics of it. It didn't seem intuitive to him and it wasn't for me either when I first heard it. You should read the thread and follow it.

I suggest that you give a fair bit of time in field practice to checking out which way flies farther after a few months accelerating the arm motion like you do now vs waiting until the disc is beside or just past the right pectoral muscle with the elbow far in front of the body chest pointed 90 degrees left of the target. The best timing in the short term is fairly easy to find out by trying out different acceleration points. If you eventually manage to throw the farthest by accelerating later than from the left pec that's fine, whatever gets you farthest with accuracy and consistency as long as it is the best potential you can manage. Potential being the key word. Not everyone can throw the same and expect best results. In the experience of Blake_T the founder of this site most players _never_ get everything right in their technique. Late acceleration being one hurdle to overcome. Some won't ever throw farther accelerating later with more explosive arm acceleration late than an early acceleration. And from what I gather Blake means (correct me if I'm wrong), and I think so, they have set themselves a distance limit they can acquire if not accelerating late. Here's where it comes to you.

You start to accelerate the arm fast almost as soon as the arm starts to move. That may not be beneficial in the short term and with a higher probability not later for getting the maximum distance as you can. Then there's the issue of time you can invest in training and your ability. If you can never input a lot of time to practice it might be beneficial to concentrate on quick fixes. And here is the great news: You don't have a lot to fix and some of it is fast for many to change.

I would not run anhyzer and throw hyzer. I've seen 10x Finnish champion Timo Pursio and Finnish champion Markus Lindewald demonstrate keeping everything aligned. So hyzers need steps from rear left of the tee toward front right. With the disc body side edge above the off side edge. You mixed anhyzer run from rear left to front right with a hyzer disc orientation. The great news is that despite this mixing and the resulting stringent timing requirements to throw in the right direction you managed to keep the arm moving at a constant angle prior to and after the disc left your hand. It's not easy to do every time. That is why it is better to align the body parts and motions going in the same direction. Accuracy and repeatability are more important in this game than distance.

More distance would come if you can reach back farther before you throw. Even up to back toward the target and landing the last step heel toward the target and the shoulder line 200+ degrees left of the target depending on your flexibility.

I've had a few today so seeing so fast motions is difficult. I think you didn't manage to push the wrist down far enough. Ideally the front and rear of the disc should be aligned with the bones between the wrist and the elbow. Only on a lower plane. I couldn't see if you were trying to stop the wrist motion after the wrist had straightened. I'm currently training wrist area and finger strength by squeezing a tennis ball (too large for my hand and fingers), holding weights in place up to 10 kilos and using a Casall hard gripper available from Stadium chain. Pushing the wrist down as far as it will go and squeezing the Casall is nasty so it should be effective. Don't overdo it it can easily break tendons. Just a few repetitions and sets in the beginning. I don't know when and how much to ramp up for people with different strengths because I'm new to this. That Casall ain't that hard to squeeze but people using grippers have written that it is good to vary resistance. Ironmind has more than enough additional resistance in their grippers. Don't even think about number 3. Ironminds cost 4 times more here than those Casalls and with Casalls you get two. So you can double up on them for added resistance :-D Ouch!!! Not with my hand size. Squeezing Casalls upside down or with fewer fingers, maintaining full squeeze then easing up two centimeters and again a full squeeze and holding etc. offer variety and help in throwing a disc. Finger strength can limit how far you can throw.

Your left foot right side drags on the ground when it should be pushing your body forward. The weight shift from back to front gives more power but is very important to get the front of the disc down. That means added distance. The heart should be as close to the target as the right knee when the disc leaves the hand. So you have a few centimeters to move forward. The more speed you add the longer the final step can be. Usually you should not move the right leg right of standing at ease position from the hip joint. You had a little of that.

Jos on kysyttävää, niin yritän tarkentaa kotimaisella.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Suggestions please.

Postby Kole » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:42 pm

Wow, thanks for the indepth analysis! Much appreciated.

- Yeah I kinda know my hand have acceleration issues, but good to hear it from others as well. *check*
- About the runup. Now that's news to me! I threw anhyzer-flexshots exclusively when starting in the sport. I'll start practising hyzer runups.
- I think that's my maximum reachback within the limitations of my form and physique at the moment. More hurts a lot.
- Grippers here too, cheap ones tho which said "medium strength". Not much resistance. I'll check the Ironmind ones up.

I didn't quite get the last part of your analysis. Any links to videos which shows the left foot push?

Thanks a ton man! :)
double bogie.
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Re: Suggestions please.

Postby JR » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:59 am

http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/9/l64-O6t9s_c at about 3 minutes look at Valarie Jenkins she's the second pair top view and Avery Jenkins in the next pair the lower view.

My Casall hard grippers are so loose that I can close them with my middle and ring fingers gripping near the edge of the handles. My index finger hasn't healed enough so I can't test if it is strong enough to close those. If one goes to heavy duty stuff like Ironminds trainer isn't supposedly that much harder to close than normal grippers. Sport is supposed to be only a little tougher nut number one is more than enough for most at first. I've had a lot of success pinching discs in the last two weeks :-D Better than ever and the discs don't require as much hyzer as they did :-) Lucky me the timing is good enough to see benefits.

Reaching back farther is possible depending on what makes you hurt. If it's legs you may be able to throw far with slow steps and more reach back from the upper body.

About the left shoe right side sliding on the ground. If you could push with the left leg (the knee would have to be bent) the force would dissipate into thin air. Your leg would just move backwards without any of the energy being directed to push you and the disc forward. You need to keep the foot firmly planted in the ground to push you forward. Think of an ice skate. Push with the side of the shoe portion and you aren't going far. Push with the blade and you're moving.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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