My Throwing Motion (iacas)

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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:22 pm

The main improvements i saw were the shortening of the final step, getting the elbow consistently somewhat forward before chopping the elbow and raising of the ball of the foot for the heel pivot. But don't be greedy advance at your own pace. Getting there will be its own reward you don't need other peoples opinions. They don't add distance etc. only changing form does that. So driving distance, accuracy, consistency and form are the measures you need to follow.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby seabas22 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:37 pm

Some improvements, but need to keep working on it. Your balance is too far behind your heels and spin out instead of pivot. You want to keep your weight on the inside arches of your feet, in-between your feet. Try to keep your rear heel off the ground a little more, it's hard to leverage the hips from the rear heel. Also land your front foot on the inside of the toes and roll through the inside of the arch down to the heel...always keeping pressure on the inside of the foot. You can also roll your weight over the front foot, instead of pivoting on the heel or ball. The pivot should be more weightless.

Moser basically uses no reachback of the disc from the right pec, keeping his upper arm/chest angle very wide. You will also notice a difference in the rear foot/heel in the finish and how it pivots up. Also watch how the front foot gets more airborne in the pivot. There's more suddeness/release.


Skip to around 2:30 and pay attention to the posture and alignment.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:56 am

I've been working on some things lately but haven't shot video, but even in working on things I noticed something in the Will Schusterick video that I probably want to consider:

http://f.cl.ly/items/472E2L1y141N0l2o3l ... Export.jpg
(Camera angles aren't exactly the same, but close enough.)

Avery Jenkins doesn't seem to have quite that extreme of a tilt, but my left shoulder being THAT high is not good. In slow motion drills I can feel how lowering the left shoulder gets me forward (in both directions "forward") a bit more and gives the disc a little more room to pull through on a straight line - it doesn't have to swing out to get around my chest as much.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:54 pm

Can you see how Will has the knees bent much more and they are directed against each other? Prepping a good push back with the right leg and the opposite with the left leg. Contrasting that to the similarity in the right hip to left hip intersecting line being at the same angle as the right shoulder to left shoulder line you can see how you're more weight back. Also you have the disc farther toward the right of the tee than Will. You need to round the initial part of the throw or you'd hit yourself. Will has the plant step toe pointing farther away from the target and the shoulders are much more rotated back, he can pull in a straighter line.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:06 pm

JR wrote:Can you see how Will has the knees bent much more and they are directed against each other? Prepping a good push back with the right leg and the opposite with the left leg.

No. I don't see that at all because his left leg just drags his left toe across the tee pad from this point on. He gets no push with his left leg from there. There's no "pushing" with the left leg or foot in this:
http://f.cl.ly/items/302U0Q2d1L1t073d25 ... terick.jpg

JR wrote:Contrasting that to the similarity in the right hip to left hip intersecting line being at the same angle as the right shoulder to left shoulder line you can see how you're more weight back.

Yes, I see that. It's a small difference in actual weight location but I pointed out the difference in shoulder angle, so yes, I see that.

JR wrote:Also you have the disc farther toward the right of the tee than Will.

I'll skip this for now because I'm not on a tee and I'm not sure I know what you mean - the right side as I look down the hole, the right side from the camera's point of view? I'm not on a tee. :)

JR wrote:You need to round the initial part of the throw or you'd hit yourself.

I thought I said that? :D Glad you agree, JR. Thank you.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:16 pm

You were throwing so that tends to happen on the tee and many times people throw toward the basket. With a rhbh throw that leaves the right side of the tee behind their back. So you have the disc too far on the side of your back for a straight line pull. Like a mini 360 which extends the reach back distance which in the thesis of Carlsen was the only positive result correlating with the exit speed of the disc with a 95 % confidence level.

I meant where Will has his knees in that picture not what happens afterward. I suspect one of two things with Will's form. Either he's moving too fast for the left leg to push forward faster or he doesn't push due to not realizing the need or that he ain't performing the push despite thinking so. Or in that throw he is taking some power off. So a form flaw after that picture or intentional distance control. The real point of the knees is that in the picture he is in a good stance to rotate powerfully should he need to put top power into the effort. So it is not a useless thing to emulate.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:27 pm

JR wrote:You were throwing so that tends to happen on the tee and many times people throw toward the basket. With a rhbh throw that leaves the right side of the tee behind their back. So you have the disc too far on the side of your back for a straight line pull. Like a mini 360 which extends the reach back distance which in the thesis of Carlsen was the only positive result correlating with the exit speed of the disc with a 95 % confidence level.

So... "right side as you're looking down the hole." Got it. And I know the disc was too far that way. Hence the comment a few posts back about swinging the disc out around my chest instead of pulling it on a straighter line. :D

JR wrote:I meant where Will has his knees in that picture not what happens afterward. I suspect one of two things with Will's form. Either he's moving too fast for the left leg to push forward faster or he doesn't push due to not realizing the need or that he ain't performing the push despite thinking so. Or in that throw he is taking some power off. So a form flaw after that picture or intentional distance control. The real point of the knees is that in the picture he is in a good stance to rotate powerfully should he need to put top power into the effort. So it is not a useless thing to emulate.

Well who knows? The frames are from his recent YouTube video. He seemed to be going pretty full-throttle in them, but I guess he might be powering down.

I'll note the knee position. I think it'll clean up with cleaner shoulder tilts, though, so I'm going to mess around with that first and see where it gets me.

Thank you for the help. Always greatly appreciated.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:35 pm

Well, I played a round today (didn't want to bother the pal I played with to film anything), but I threw some nice shots. Got reasonable distance too. At this point I'm pretty happy with any drive over 300', and I threw several of those today. I threw a nice Axis on a 250' hole with a tree just in front of the tee. Just over the right side of the tree, stood up, coasted out, and then faded downhill hard. Left me about a 25' putt on a tricky green with a pin set on top of a big slope that falls away to three sides.

I think I knew my form was improved because I had to try to throw a lot of shots with the wing down or else they'd just turn and never flex back. An Avenger SS thrown pretty flat would turn like crazy, for example, and I threw a Nuke SS on the 18th after I'd thrown my drive (with the AvSS actually) on a slight hyzer angle and it stood up and turned right too. I hit my lines most of the day as well - perhaps the biggest problem I had today was that on a few uphill shots I didn't throw them up enough - I threw flat and it'd rob me of the distance I should have gotten throwing along the slope more. Those shots aren't 100% comfortable yet - I feel like I'm just going to throw them nose up and the disc will just fade weakly. If I throw them like the Axis I threw on #12 I can do it - that's an upward trajectory that's still a nose-down throw.

I didn't concentrate on my shoulder pitch like I said I would - it was too much when playing. That's probably why I released some too flat today so they'd "stand up" and then actually begin turning. But it really wasn't that bad. I parked a few holes from 300' or so throwing some mid-range stuff, and like I said I hit my lines all day.

Here's video of my friend Richard absolutely stinking. :) My wife is better than this, frankly. He kept not rotating his shoulders back much and so to compensate he'd bend his elbow and get it inside the line quite a bit. Weak fades all day, and some nose-up garbage on holes 12-16 or so. He made some good throws through holes 6-11 though.



I teach this guy in golf, and... well, his golf swing is much better, but that's almost a guarantee.

I've gotten to roughly page five or six of the "maxing out at 300'" thread and I must say I feel like the stuff I've read in the first few pages there has been VERY helpful. I had throws today of 365' or so (laser confirmed, slightly downhill, cross-wind, but you've gotta throw it under a tree just off the tee so you never get to really air it out anyway) and then one that went over 400' but I'm not claiming that one because it was downhill for a bit. I'm pretty happy to have thrown that Axis 250' on that one hole, too. Great line. I thought it might bang the chains for a second or two, and Richard said "get in!" so it wasn't just me. :) (It's the second one in the video, actually, not that you can see the basket...)

Anyway, the thread's been helpful because I liked the "body in a cast" idea, where you spin your hips for the first part of the throw (after reach-back) and then you "chop" along with letting the arm raise up a bit on its own. My throws today felt much more effortless than they have in the past - my arm wasn't stuck against my chest as I pivoted, I wasn't consciously trying to throw my arm, etc.

In golf we see people who don't turn their shoulders back much compensating by lifting their arms and bending their elbows to "finish" the backswing. Richard does this in his disc golf motion, so I was conscious of keeping that angle between my shoulders and my upper arm, and really turning so my back was to the target and reaching back on a good line. I did this (to a lesser extent) even on 100'-150' approach shots and they too felt effortlessly powerful and were much, MUCH easier to control the lines - the disc just came out basically where I'd pointed my feet.

So I think I made some good strides today. Don't get me wrong, I know I still stink, but I feel like today was proof or validation of some things. I hit my lines and had (for me, right now) effortless power all day today, and so I don't think it was just luck and "good timing" in terms of releasing the disc to hit my lines - I feel like my motion today was improved quite a bit over the old videos.

On the 365' hole where you have to throw under a tree just off the tee, I told Richard I'd put it to 40 feet basket-high right a few weeks ago, and today I threw a nice shot that turned and then faded just a few feet in each direction to 20' left of the basket. :) Of course then I chickened out on the putt and clanked it off the basket. :P D'oh!

Anyway, again, thank you thank you thank you to everyone here for the help. I'll be shooting video soon again and hope that the changes I've felt are at least showing up in the video, because if not, then I may just go crazy because today felt NOTHING like previous rounds.

I appreciate you all, and all the help you've given. Thank you, JR, seabas22, Blake, and others.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:39 am

Congratulations! That is a good distance increase in such a short time. It doesn't come naturally to all from the longer reach back because balance and strength issue may hamper proper execution robbing brain boy commanding automatically to not move down so your throw could get overtaken by the subconscience. It sounds that you have at least decent leg and core muscle power with enough body control to not spaz out each time turning the back toward the target. That phase can last for months for some when first trying to turn the back toward the target.

The body cast includes the arms as loose strings being automatically whipped around by the body movement. The bad thing is what Richard did because the arm movement is rounding. He is not leading with the elbow. The pause is for actively moving the arm forward with the right shoulder socket as the center of the rotation. When you exit the pause by turning the second 90 degree phase with the body and the disc at the right side the automated arm swing will keep the disc on the line if the legs, hips and shoulders move at the right time and in the correct order. The elbow has to straighten at the proper time to avoid late rounding too because it is the only way a disc move on a straight line when the rest of the lower body is turning right. The elbow chop has to be active muscle assisted for best acceleration and power. Richard doesn't seem to use any arm muscle power to straighten the arm. He should be accelerating in the end of the throw. Loose arm muscles make the late acceleration more explosive.

I met two gold instructors who also play disc golf here last summer. Cool that there are more. Was it Bubba Watson who said he only really learned to play golf after playing disc golf and learning course management on this side of the coin? Applying what he realized here to golf. I hear he's respected for his tight course management and placement skills in golf.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:54 am

JR wrote:Congratulations! That is a good distance increase in such a short time. It doesn't come naturally to all from the longer reach back because balance and strength issue may hamper proper execution robbing brain boy commanding automatically to not move down so your throw could get overtaken by the subconscience. It sounds that you have at least decent leg and core muscle power with enough body control to not spaz out each time turning the back toward the target. That phase can last for months for some when first trying to turn the back toward the target.

Thanks. I'm quite pleased. Still a long way to go, but I always like noting when actual "steps" are taken where a skill is noticeably bumped rather than gradually improving over weeks or months or years. They're exciting (and few and far between). I'm in it for the long haul, but now perhaps a little ahead of schedule. Not having a bunch of bad habits is probably helping me right now.

JR wrote:The body cast includes the arms as loose strings being automatically whipped around by the body movement. The bad thing is what Richard did because the arm movement is rounding. He is not leading with the elbow. The pause is for actively moving the arm forward with the right shoulder socket as the center of the rotation. When you exit the pause by turning the second 90 degree phase with the body and the disc at the right side the automated arm swing will keep the disc on the line if the legs, hips and shoulders move at the right time and in the correct order. The elbow has to straighten at the proper time to avoid late rounding too because it is the only way a disc move on a straight line when the rest of the lower body is turning right. The elbow chop has to be active muscle assisted for best acceleration and power. Richard doesn't seem to use any arm muscle power to straighten the arm. He should be accelerating in the end of the throw. Loose arm muscles make the late acceleration more explosive.

Yeah, it was interesting watching him. He kept putting the disc well inside the line with a bent arm early, largely because he wouldn't trust that he could turn back enough, then he'd straighten the elbow and rotate around his body. Like an even worse version of my first throws.

JR wrote:I met two golf instructors who also play disc golf here last summer. Cool that there are more. Was it Bubba Watson who said he only really learned to play golf after playing disc golf and learning course management on this side of the coin? Applying what he realized here to golf. I hear he's respected for his tight course management and placement skills in golf.

He's a PDGA member, but I believe he learned disc golf after learning about golf. And course management isn't one of Bubba's strengths at all. He loves to curve the golf ball (in an era when most PGA Tour pros play very little curve), but that's about it. He has said he learned to play a lot of curve on the golf ball hitting whiffle golf balls around his house as a kid, curving it wildly to play "par fours" from his front yard to his back yard or whatever.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:42 am



That video was shot two days or so after my reasonably good round. During the good round I focused on getting a good (proper) grip on the disc prior to release, getting a good reach-back with my chest (shoulders) turning 180° away from the target at reach-back, and letting the hips and shoulders pull my arm across my chest and fling the disc WITHOUT letting my upper arm get too close to my chest (the "arm in a cast" thing from the "maxing at 300'" thread). As I said my accuracy improved and I'd added a little distance that felt "easy".

Yesterday I had a worse round at Knob Hill. I believe I started to think about too many things, and got away from the core idea that had worked so well a few days before. That's the problem with recording video and then playing quickly - you tend to see too many things you want to work on. The course - and I feel stupid since I know this from golf - is not the place to have more than one or two simple "swing thoughts."

Anyway, my notes on the video...

I first want to start off by saying that I think I can see improvements here, and while I'm excited that they seem visible to me, I do realize there's still a long way yet to go.

Face-On View

Camera angle here was sitting on a small GorillaPod resting on top of my Grip bag. So about two and a half feet off the ground and maybe 15 feet away.

00:00 - 00:20 - Pre-shot routine trying to get my shoulders down a bit. I succeed AND fail at this in the actual throw. Also trying to work on what I might call a two-phase throw from reach-back: spin the hips to pull the elbow in and the disc to my pec area, then elbow chop. The chop doesn't feel particularly active, but it's not entirely passive either. The pre-shots are about all I was thinking during my good round, and maybe not even the shoulder tilt part...

00:20 - 00:30 - Just the 120 FPS view of the throw at 30 FPS speed.

00:43 - Right shoulder lower than left. That's nice to see. It's not even distorted with the camera angle because a higher camera angle would make this look even more so (right below left).

00:48 - Step is probably still too wide. Probably not WAY too wide, but I believe it's too wide. How much should I shorten it by? Six inches? A foot? My spine tilts away but I have good tilts, my right elbow isn't very bent, my wrist seems to be in a good position, my shoulders are turned 90°.

1:00 - I don't like that my wrist tends to tilt the disc in this position BUT I'm not sure how much I should worry about it. It seems to happen to a lot of players, and some top pros do this more than I do it here. Is worrying about this position fairly pointless? To other points, my upper arm has gotten a little closer to my chest than I'd like in this picture, though it's tough to see how close.

1:07 - Alignments look cleaner to me from here. Upper arm 90° or perhaps a bit more here to the shoulders, disc in a reasonably decent position. Shoulder tilts are back to being up again slightly (is that a worry right now? down the road?). Plant foot at 90°. Disc around the left pec, hand on the outside still...

1:16 - Shoulders nowhere near as far open as they were before. This looks to be pretty decent position so far as I can tell. Disc is on a slight hyzer release so it can stand up, doesn't have a LOT of wobble.

1:22 - 1:40 - I believe I'm still pushing off with my left foot slightly, and my right plant foot seems to pivot pretty well in this throw.

1:46 - 2:02 - Just dragging through the throw once more.

Down the Line View

The camera was about 20 feet behind where I let go of the disc and was sitting only about six inches off the ground, angled upwards enough to catch me.

2:09 - 2:33 - Practice motion focusing on the same things: shoulder tilts, spin to get to the pec area, then let the chop happen.

2:33 - 2:56 - Two throws. I like the first more than the second.

3:05 - Better shoulder tilts.

3:11 - 3:30 - Disc appears to travel in a fairly straight line. Camera angles can really mess with this perception though so I'm not forming any real hypotheses from this except to say that this appears a little better than my first videos.

3:57 - 4:06 - Again the little wrist motion that changes the orientation of the disc's angle. Should I worry much about that? Worrying about it right now seems to really mess things up, and as I said above, a lot of people seem to have a little move in here, so maybe it's nothing to worry about.

4:22 - (Not marked) Disc plane matches forearm plane. That's good, I suppose.

After I shot the video, I threw some lower-speed (full "throwing motion" but 50% speed or so, to "practice" a little) throws. The disc was wobbling a bit and stupidly I sought to correct it. I noticed that when I naturally grip the disc my wrist isn't as far into ulnar deviation (wrist uncocked) as is required to put the disc on an angle that matches my forearm, so I spent some time doing that and it seemed to clean up... BUT that's a stupid thing to do because video shows I do "okay" with this without having to think about it a whole lot, and if I want to change the disc's angle (hyzer and anhyzer) I really have to worry more about shoulder tilts to control the arm angle.

I was thinking about this (to the exclusion of just turning my back to the target during reach-back) during my last round and I think that's what causes a lot of my problems. I probably reverted somewhat to a less-turned reach-back and thus bent the elbow a bit to "finish my backswing" and thus had a little difficulty.

So, what do you think? What should I work on next? Do I continue to work on shoulder tilts and shortening my last step a little (so long as I maintain the improved reach-back position)? Or is there something else?
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:09 pm

I'm too tired for a full reply so i'll get back to that later. I'd shorten the plant step between 6-10" at that speed. At a slower speed more and full speed not at all. The thing to watch for is the right hip mobility in the joint that connects the leg to the hip. If you ever come against the movement range of that joint the plant step length needs to change. Shorter for slower speeds. See at about 3:40 you are flat footed with the right leg. Ouch time look at the way the ankle has twisted. That needs to go away.

I can confirm that thinking too much and of too many things ruins the execution of the throw in disc golf too. I preach a samurai trick of not having anything in your mind as a routine for a throw on the course. That is the ideal but after messing up you do need to change what you did wrong so you need to add safety measure against repeating the previous mistake. You can't let your form deteriorate or it can change to a poorer one for good. Practice and changing form is different at times. You need to practice like you compete too but not paying attention to what you do won't help in changing form either and will no teach you about detecting what you did wrong. Flow has you in a care free non thinking execution mode. That is what you should train for but before getting there you need to get a good form so the changes are mandatory and during the change period you must compromise. Worrying and thinking will mostly add sources of mental errors that lead to execution errors. That is why one needs to have ice in the veins and train for automation and an empty head. After you've set up for the shot, line shaping, disc selection and power level adjustments and aiming points with wind correction done the last with the most current available observations for the best possible chance of reading the wind right. Just my experience but i've read similar experiences from others. I have no concrete data on how many people do this and how well it works for them. For those to whom it works it is nice indeed. Too bad i'm in the flow state mostly during playing quickly alone or with one guy in the same group. I cool down physically very quickly. Maybe mind wise almost as fast too who knows?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby iacas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:18 pm

JR wrote:I'm too tired for a full reply so i'll get back to that later. I'd shorten the plant step between 6-10" at that speed. At a slower speed more and full speed not at all.

I'm not sure what you mean. This is a full-speed throw. It's just 120 FPS playing at 30 FPS. So don't shorten it? It's short enough now? I was throwing these into a pretty good headwind about 285'. Downwind I was matching that distance with no stepping. No wind they'd have gone 310' to 315' or so. They're the 2012 Ace Race discs, too. The DTL ones are, anyway. The face-on video is a QJLS.

JR wrote:The thing to watch for is the right hip mobility in the joint that connects the leg to the hip. If you ever come against the movement range of that joint the plant step length needs to change. Shorter for slower speeds. See at about 3:40 you are flat footed with the right leg. Ouch time look at the way the ankle has twisted. That needs to go away.

Again, I am not entirely sure you're right about "ouch time" there. I've played golf and have almost 90° of flexibility there. I turn against my ankles even more in my golf swing and hit a few thousand balls a week and run 20 miles a week, and ice skate (hockey), and have never had ankle or knee issues.

That's not to say of course that they can't develop, and it's something I will definitely watch for, but you'll note in the face-on video that I did rotate through. I will definitely keep an eye on that, but I just don't know that I'd prioritize it quite as high as you seem to want to. I understand I know very little about this, but I can't help but play devil's advocate a little bit on this one. :)

JR wrote:I can confirm that thinking too much and of too many things ruins the execution of the throw in disc golf too. I preach a samurai trick of not having anything in your mind as a routine for a throw on the course. That is the ideal but after messing up you do need to change what you did wrong so you need to add safety measure against repeating the previous mistake. You can't let your form deteriorate or it can change to a poorer one for good. Practice and changing form is different at times. You need to practice like you compete too but not paying attention to what you do won't help in changing form either and will no teach you about detecting what you did wrong. Flow has you in a care free non thinking execution mode.

Yes, I agree with all of that. I'm one of the best practicers around when it comes to golf, and even then there are several ways of practicing, but I'd agree that they tend to fall into the two groups you mentioned: practicing to change a pattern of motion, and practicing to ingrain that pattern or find a good "thought" or "feel" to actually succeed at playing. Very different practice motions.

Very interested in hearing more about what I can change in my pattern, as I think I still have a LONG way to go to have even a "good" throwing motion. :)

Thank you.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:36 pm

The most urgent thing is to get a proper heel pivot each time. It only takes one missed pivot to injure you seriously possibly out of this sport. Maybe others too. You are risking your health seriously here. You did not have any run up steps so you lacked a base speed to the throw and adding that is murder on the body if the whole sole is on the ground. There movement range of the ankle does not help because the momentum is enough to twist the ankle beyond the range of flexibility and then some into tearing soft tissue possible breaking bones too. I don't which DGR member is an EMT and in places he says they can almost always tell the injury and the cause based on the location. New sneakers with great traction on a disc golf course with a flat sole plant and the shoe sticking to place with the body twisting the ankle to pieces. Make no mistake this is very different to golf and way way way more dangerous. I'm not kidding people hurt themselves this way all the time. And i have very limber body in most places and on too flat footed throws i've had pain in the ankle. Even before i got injured in a non DG accident. And i have a sports background so my body isn't totally unconditioned even if it is creaky now.

None of the sports you practice have anything as stressful as a heel pivot unless you lock ankles or skates with an oncoming skater. It is difficult to gauge the real speed of you x step from the video but to me it didn't seem as rapid as it could be. That is why i'm thinking it is not a fast throw. You need to be ferret quick to x step anything close to the speed of run up plus the x step. In my books those throws were slow enough to warrant a shorter plant step. And i'd start with taking at least 6" off and wouldn't wonder if 10" wouldn't help even more. A foot might be so short a step that the leg to hip socket movement range may come to play. Whenever any joint reaches the limit of mobility your consistency is dropped. Most likely the accuracy of that throw too.

Edit go to Innova's web site and see how for steep hyzers it is possible to roll from one side of the shoe to the other (no joy for flat shots for consistency) because you can jump up in the follow through to avoid breaking your leg. The video is the world distance record from David Wiggins junior. FH things are easier with jumping after a flat throw watch Tali Open 2010 finals for Ville Piippo for example. You hop or twist the ankle. That is risky.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: My Throwing Motion (iacas)

Postby JR » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:25 am

The pre throw routine and the first throw have the left leg too far toward your back AKA if you were on a tee too close to the right side of the tee. In the beginning and at the x step. The left leg is so far to the right that it limits the distance the left leg can push back to front.

At 48 seconds your head looks to what would be the left side of the tee instead of back. That seriously limits how far back you can reach. You'll gain several inches of reach back distance pointing the nose 180 degrees away from the target. If you can remain balanced, well timed and have enough brain guidance power to accelerate hard with the muscles.

For the 1 minute part have you seen the two Discraft long distance throwing videos? Marty Peters shows wrist tips. The videos are on their website and their Youtube channel sportdisc. That disc hyzer orientation is good for hyzers not for consistent flat or annied throws. For ultimate power generation moving up from almost vertical hyzer to flat or anny whatever you desire will add to the power of the wrist snap. It might also require more grip power to hold onto the disc.

1:07 the left leg is almost perfectly straight at the knee so it can't push forward more. And the latter part of the throw is more critical so you lost the largest power source. That speed is not top pro level in the back to front movement of the whole body so the stride length should be such that the right ankle, right knee and right arm pit are equidistant from the target. For a run up quicker x step throw the stride has to be longer and the stride you had here would be good because unlike now the momentum you have will get you forward enough at the rip. Now you are about 5-7" weight back from optimum. Which is upright. Think of ice skaters doing a pirouette. Tilt that and even if you could maintain the best rotation speed while you are tilted you shall lose balance at least when the rotation speed goes down. Like moving at 1 MPH with a bike shows. The shoulder angle here relates directly to being weight back and much would improve with getting a shorter stride and weight upright=forward from this position. You don't twist the hips much from here on because the major driver of that motion the left leg is on vacation having spent the power potential that is a bent knee. The remedy is to bend the knees lower on each step.

1:16 the left toe might be off enough of the ground that you might not be able to counter the elbow chop counter force. Flat footed. The hips have engaged with the core muscles which is a huge thumbs up! I might be wrong but the shoulders seem to be along for the ride not having turned any farther to the right than the hips. You are leaning to the left of the imaginary tee from the hips up and that also influences the shoulder angle. So again a more upright posture would help.

1:22-1:40 the right ball of the foot is up enough for flat tees but not good enough for going over roots and pine cones etc.

The next throw has the tilts, rounding a little and where is the follow through step? That robs power and control when it is missing.

The stride length and reaching back more with more bent knees with the most important thing adding a follow through step of the left leg makes a world of difference. The follow through step is great for soft stand stills too. I suggest highly that you look at how smooth Jussi Meresmaa is with stand stills and how far he sits back in the rach back and how far forward he gets after the disc has left and how smooth he is in between. Smooth is great. For example Youtube channel lcgm8 Finnish Open 2010 has two rounds with Jussi.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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