I hope I don't regret this

[Midnightbiker]

I cut my run up down today, and tried a few new things and I have seemed to have picked up about 30 feet. I always thought I needed a long run up, but now it seems I don't.

[JR]

I'll have to check out Coda Hatfield's form later but if he manages a line drive to 500' with his left leg in the air that's even more impressive and I know he's at the top level in this game in skills. I'm not the only one who's noticed decrease in distance by picking up the left leg pre release.

I don't remember the form I used to come to the conclusion about losing D by lifting the left leg early. I think that my form was a fast run up with lots of linear speed and minimal rotation. Not sure though. I need to recheck what this does for me now besides making turning torso towards target much easier at the release. And adding accuracy and consistency.

[masterbeato]

Yeah I was just talking about the timing of the upper body, you were referring to the entire body.

[bcsst26]

I was talking about the upper body timing, nothing to do with the lower when I was talking about leading with the elbows.

So are we talking about doing the same thing then? Not arguing, just hoping that what I'm thinking is what you're doing

A little more explanation on this would be nice. Should I be pushing my elbow more toward the target before I rotate my shoulders? Or just make sure I have the disc to my right pec and my elbow in front of that before opening up my shoulders. These fine details get to me.

[black udder]

You start with your arm in the reachback position and leave it there.

You begin your hip rotation and that will pull your arm a little towards your chest as your pivot your hips.

Then, you begin your torso and shoulder rotation. That will pull your arm even closer. It's at this point, when your torso/shoulder is pulling your arm, that you want to accelerate your pull and time it so that the disc rips from your hand just when you square your shoulders up to your target. That's what makes it so hard.

If you over accelerate fast or rotate too slow, then you get an early release. if you over accelerate or rotate too fast, then you get a late release or grip lock.

If you keep your chin over your toes, then your shot should be hyzer or flat, if you stand upright with your chin over your toes, then you'll end up with flat to anhyzer (which could make your flat shot turn over, too).

Depending on if you're throwing elbow or shoulder lead dictates which you lead with, but with either throwing technique, you need your elbow to hit your target direction first, then your shoulders should begin to square up as the disc tracks down your arm and eventually rips out as your wrist pops open just as your shoulder square up.

Your speed and power come from your arm being the last thing you pull in your throw, not the first. If you start with the hips, then add your torso, then shoulders, you've already got a ton of speed and power built up and your arm should already be in motion. Now you're not bringing your pull through from a dead stop, you've already got 20% of your speed going without using your arms. Then, when you feel your arm moving, you need to actually pull as fast as you can. That's when you're maximizing your body potential by utilizing your bigger muscles to generate your power.

The problem is that when you do this after not doing it, you'll find that you rotate much faster and before and will release late a lot until you get the timing down. Your arm speed will probably feel super slow as well because you're not used to the speed you are generating.

Many, many players know this, feel this and just do it naturally. For those of us who haven't performed these type of timing actions before (throwing baseballs, footballs, batting, etc.) then it's more difficult because you need to teach yourself these fundamentals, practice them, and perfect them. Most people don't understand the throwing mechanics, let alone practice them.

[bcsst26]

So if I am understanding this correct when it is time to "pull your arm" you want to make sure to do this fast enough to get your elbow out in front to hit your target line before your shoulders square up to the target?

[black udder]

yeah. As your shoulders begin to come around, your elbow shoots out and as the shoulders being to square up, you finish the pull.

It's a tough timing to get right. I agree with Blake that folks with certain athletic backgrounds cotton on to this timing easier than those without. Blake also says that they are easier to coach as well because they're familiar with the routine and requirements to improve.