Measuring par.

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Measuring par.

Postby sunspot » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:37 pm

Most tees are generally a par 3. What are the general rules when making a tee a certain par number. For example, a 300 ft tee would be a par 3 while a 600 ft. would be a par 4. When does the feet separate from going to a par 3 to a par 4?
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:27 pm

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Re: Measuring par.

Postby inthedrift » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:20 pm

Are there actually par 2 holes on any courses?
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:51 pm

Yes, since it's up to the TD who sets the pars. Plus there are tiki courses with all holes less than 120 feet.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby rehder » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:40 pm

IMHO all holes 60meters and shorter should be par 2's.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby ferretdance03 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:08 pm

I would tend to agree, if the hole is open. I've played a few tough holes under 200ft.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:27 pm

Other than tiki courses, I'm not sure we should have Par 2 holes in the sport. If a hole is under 60 meters and is pretty wide open on a course designed for gold level (world class) players, then it's just a too easy par 3 and not appropriate for that level of player and course. Holes under 60 meters can be appropriate and legit Par 3s if the course or set of tees is designed for Red (rec) level of players. Very players at this level can average more 2s than 3s on any hole over say 125 feet.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby rehder » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:32 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:Other than tiki courses, I'm not sure we should have Par 2 holes in the sport.


And I totally agree, but unfortunately there are a ton of courses with short hole lengths
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby matchu » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:06 pm

ferretdance03 wrote:I would tend to agree, if the hole is open. I've played a few tough holes under 200ft.


that was not in Houston when we went to spring valley is it? lol There are some nice short tough holes on that course and then there are the 9 on the ball course that are rather lengthy
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby JHern » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:11 pm

rehder wrote:IMHO all holes 60meters and shorter should be par 2's.


ferretdance03 wrote:I would tend to agree, if the hole is open. I've played a few tough holes under 200ft.


There is a "course" nearby (actually only very slightly beyond the safari level of development) with quite a few 60 m-ish holes that are so over-choked with brush that you practically need a machete to walk the fairway. OK, maybe an exaggeration, but sure as hell these are some of the toughest holes I've played, since a disc is not designed to fly far under such circumstances (though good tomahawks/thumbers are rewarded under some of these circumstances, except when blocked by several 100'+ tall trees on some of the holes).

But this is very difficult to quantify unless you go back to the statistical meaning of par. Statistical par is what most regular players would expect to score on a given hole. Record the results of a trial, if you need to do so. Simply add up the number of 2s, the 3s, the 4s, etc., separately then ask which is the most abundant (like voting for par with your discs). You might want to throw out votes/throws that are really bad, to prevent outliers from skewing the data if the throwers are having a bad day.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby rehder » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:51 pm

The problem with making holes tough that are under 60 meters is that they tend to be more on the lucky side. IE. the passages have to be so narrow that even very good players will have a hard time hitting the passages consistently.
I can have a 100foot hole that has a passage of 1*1foot. So while it might be a tough short hole, I wouldnt call it a good tough short hole. It would be totally lucky to get through the hole
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby JHern » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:36 pm

rehder wrote:The problem with making holes tough that are under 60 meters is that they tend to be more on the lucky side. IE. the passages have to be so narrow that even very good players will have a hard time hitting the passages consistently.
I can have a 100foot hole that has a passage of 1*1foot. So while it might be a tough short hole, I wouldnt call it a good tough short hole. It would be totally lucky to get through the hole


There you have it. Tee shot to lay up at the 1x1 ft hole. Approach shot through the hole to lay up at the basket. Putt in. It's a par 3. :wink:

Technical short holes can actually be a great deal of fun, within reason of course. Every DGC should have some like this, which really test your accuracy and punish you severely if you chop wood/rock. I remember one hole that was maybe 180 ft but the narrow tree-lined fairway was shaped like the greek xi symbol and crawled over a small hill so no way you can lay up at the basket in one throw...only chance for birdie would be an extraordinary tomahawk or something like that.
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby rehder » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:11 am

JHern wrote:
rehder wrote:The problem with making holes tough that are under 60 meters is that they tend to be more on the lucky side. IE. the passages have to be so narrow that even very good players will have a hard time hitting the passages consistently.
I can have a 100foot hole that has a passage of 1*1foot. So while it might be a tough short hole, I wouldnt call it a good tough short hole. It would be totally lucky to get through the hole


There you have it. Tee shot to lay up at the 1x1 ft hole. Approach shot through the hole to lay up at the basket. Putt in. It's a par 3. :wink:

Technical short holes can actually be a great deal of fun, within reason of course. Every DGC should have some like this, which really test your accuracy and punish you severely if you chop wood/rock. I remember one hole that was maybe 180 ft but the narrow tree-lined fairway was shaped like the greek xi symbol and crawled over a small hill so no way you can lay up at the basket in one throw...only chance for birdie would be an extraordinary tomahawk or something like that.


extraordinary = luck ---on short shots like that, which is why its no good
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby SkeeterBuzzzonaut » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:07 pm

tiki course :?:
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Re: Measuring par.

Postby black udder » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:52 pm

rehder wrote:IMHO all holes 60meters and shorter should be par 2's.


Doesn't really matter much, does it? All the tournaments I've played have been stroke play so Par has no real meaning. I'd be interested to hear about other scoring methods where Par would come into play.

I play a course where all the holes are under 300' and several are around 200'. I've birdied all 18, but only once have hit even half of them in the same round. I guess if you're at a pro or semi-pro level, then courses like that you'd like to see those shorter holes at a par 2, but a Par 3 seems to hit a wider range of players than a Par 2 would.
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