Does this count?

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Does this count?

Postby Midnightbiker » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:36 pm

Just wanted to double check. My daughter made this putt and the disc hung on the side of the basket. This counts right? Here is the pic of her with her shot:



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Re: Does this count?

Postby ferretdance03 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:50 pm

As long as she pulls it before it falls, it's good.

I'd never seen that happen before in person, and I actually had one stick like that for me at a sanctioned event last month. 25 footer on a temp/portable basket.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby Dogma » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:05 pm

Ferretdance is right.

803.13 B. "Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed."
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Re: Does this count?

Postby Midnightbiker » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:29 pm

Cool, I called it right.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby Craig » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:33 pm

ferretdance03 wrote:As long as she pulls it before it falls, it's good.


Doesn't matter if she pulls it before it falls, only if it comes to rest. If it comes to rest hanging like that, but then a breeze comes up and blows it out before she grabs it, it still counts as in.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby curt » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:49 pm

Doesn't matter if she pulls it before it falls, only if it comes to rest. If it comes to rest hanging like that, but then a breeze comes up and blows it out before she grabs it, it still counts as in.


Sort of. This assessment rests on the disc being at rest. A disc above the playing surface is not considered at rest until you have marked it (I would argue that in the instance of a disc in the basket, marking it is analogous to removing it for this discussion). For example, if the disc gets stuck in a tree, above 2 meters, then the wind knocks it down before you get there and mark it, then you play from where it falls. This interpretation is upheld in the rules Q&A in the question about a thrown disc hitting a disc in the tree. The basic assumption here is that a disc above the playing surface is not at rest. Once you mark it on the playing surface it is at rest. Accordingly, that shot is only good if you remove it before it falls.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby JimW » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:51 pm

Wouldn't a hanging disc come under the same conditions as one wedged in the gaps in the basket? Wedge goals don't count if they fall out before the disc being retrieved.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby Dogma » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:17 pm

Dogma wrote:803.13 B. "Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed."

Why would a hanging disc be held to a different standard than one inside the entrapment section? Plus, the last thing anyone would want is ambiguity about whether a disc came to rest before it fell. That seems like an argument waiting to happen. I agree the wording could be nitpicked, but I assumed the "until removed" part was universal.

But, to disagree with myself, I guess the counterpart to the was-it-at-rest-or-not argument would be the argument that would arise if you were playing that the disc had to be removed and someone knocked your disc off with their putt before you had a chance to remove it. Would that be legal? Now I'm confused.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby spitfire » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:44 pm

It was my understanding that if that happened and 2 people in your group said it was at rest it would count no matter what, even if it did fall before being able to retrieve it. I was told this at a tourny so that is what I always thought the rule was.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:31 pm

The Interference rule 803.07B indicates that as long as the disc is at rest ON THE TARGET OR PLAYING SURFACE (not in the trees), then it can be replaced on the basket if it falls off or pops out before you get there. However, the Rules Committee has not specified what the term "at rest" means. So, if you're 100 ft out and hit a wedgie, just ask your group if it's at rest as you're moving toward the basket. If they say "yes" then you can walk slower...

The same thing happens when it's a windy day and your putt gets stuck in the chains. Technically, your disc may never be at rest for quite a while as it sways in the chains. However, we all look at it for a few seconds and say it's relatively at rest and allow the player to remove it.
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Re: Does this count?

Postby spitfire » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:49 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:The Interference rule 803.07B indicates that as long as the disc is at rest ON THE TARGET OR PLAYING SURFACE (not in the trees), then it can be replaced on the basket if it falls off or pops out before you get there. However, the Rules Committee has not specified what the term "at rest" means. So, if you're 100 ft out and hit a wedgie, just ask your group if it's at rest as you're moving toward the basket. If they say "yes" then you can walk slower...

The same thing happens when it's a windy day and your putt gets stuck in the chains. Technically, your disc may never be at rest for quite a while as it sways in the chains. However, we all look at it for a few seconds and say it's relatively at rest and allow the player to remove it.



Great, sounds like I was given the right info then.
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