Hanging Put

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Hanging Put

Postby stoneman » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:40 pm

Okay, there was "some" disagreement tonite about my buddy's 35' putt (uphill). His disc landed and stuck on the side of the rim. Our group counted it, but at least one person questioned the ruling later on. Here's a pic:
Image
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby ferretdance03 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:47 pm

It's good.
803.13 Holing Out

A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines:
(1) Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02.
(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.
(3) Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as "Did Not Finish" on the scorecard and in the event results.

B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.

C. Object Targets: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must strike
the marked target area on the object as specified by the director.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Dogma » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:48 pm

Identical discussion here: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11985
The image from the original post has been deleted, but it was just like yours- disc hanging from rim of basket. Good input from Chuck near the end.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby stoneman » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:58 pm

Thanks guys.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby IdahoLefty » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:33 pm

huh its not good??? its on the out side of the basket.

but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Jeronimo » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:57 pm

It's good, count it.
I am dumb.

...and a drama queen.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Star Shark » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:10 pm

IdahoLefty wrote:huh its not good??? its on the out side of the basket.

but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section.


That's the lower entrapment section it's on. That part of the rule excludes DROT or variations thereof.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby curt » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:48 pm

IdahoLefty wrote:
huh its not good??? its on the out side of the basket.

but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section.


That's the lower entrapment section it's on. That part of the rule excludes DROT or variations thereof.


While this sounds a little contradictory on the surface, the rules committee consistently defends the wording that give discs hanging from the lower entrapment section good. Their reasoning is to give the player the benefit of the doubt. Suppose a player sends a disc flying off around a bend in the trees and the group hears the thud of the disc hitting the basket. When you arrive, the disc is wedged into the basket. Can you prove if the disc got in that position from the inside or outside of the basket? The rules committee says no and believes the player should get credit for a made shot if it went from the inside. Benefit of the doubt results in the ambiguity giving any disc supported by the basket credit for going in. It is different from the DROT in that there is no way the DROT could have got into that position from a shot that would be in aside from design flaws in the basket. I believe that the hanging disc scenario is so exceedingly rare, that adjusting the wording to remove, but leave wedges, would result in unnecessary confusion in the wording of the rules.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby IdahoLefty » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:59 pm

curt wrote:
IdahoLefty wrote:
huh its not good??? its on the out side of the basket.

but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section.


That's the lower entrapment section it's on. That part of the rule excludes DROT or variations thereof.


While this sounds a little contradictory on the surface, the rules committee consistently defends the wording that give discs hanging from the lower entrapment section good. Their reasoning is to give the player the benefit of the doubt. Suppose a player sends a disc flying off around a bend in the trees and the group hears the thud of the disc hitting the basket. When you arrive, the disc is wedged into the basket. Can you prove if the disc got in that position from the inside or outside of the basket? The rules committee says no and believes the player should get credit for a made shot if it went from the inside. Benefit of the doubt results in the ambiguity giving any disc supported by the basket credit for going in. It is different from the DROT in that there is no way the DROT could have got into that position from a shot that would be in aside from design flaws in the basket. I believe that the hanging disc scenario is so exceedingly rare, that adjusting the wording to remove, but leave wedges, would result in unnecessary confusion in the wording of the rules.


i understand the disc threw the side being good. since its "in" the basket but the above picture is a missed putt. 10 out of 10 times you hit the basket where the disc is and its going to roll away. but any way no use arguing in tell the wording is changed in the rule book...
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby ferretdance03 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:49 am

IdahoLefty wrote:...10 out of 10 times you hit the basket where the disc is and its going to roll away...

Obviously not, that putt stuck. Plus, for the disc to hang like that on the nub, you figure it can't be perfectly vertical outside the plane of the basket, so technically, a fraction of the disc actually is in.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby SkaBob » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:13 am

Doesn't necessarily have to be a "missed" putt to get there, either.

You could hit dead center chains and spit back out, catching on the nub on the way down. Would you say the player missed, having hit the chains dead center?
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby IdahoLefty » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:53 am

SkaBob wrote:Doesn't necessarily have to be a "missed" putt to get there, either.

You could hit dead center chains and spit back out, catching on the nub on the way down. Would you say the player missed, having hit the chains dead center?



i didn't say it hit the chains, i said where the disc is now its a missed putt. and yes if the disc hits dead middle chains and bounces out last i checked its a missed putt. a good putt but still missed. or do you play by different rules?
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby IdahoLefty » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:55 am

ferretdance03 wrote:
IdahoLefty wrote:...10 out of 10 times you hit the basket where the disc is and its going to roll away...

Obviously not, that putt stuck. Plus, for the disc to hang like that on the nub, you figure it can't be perfectly vertical outside the plane of the basket, so technically, a fraction of the disc actually is in.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby SkaBob » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:01 pm

IdahoLefty wrote:
SkaBob wrote:Doesn't necessarily have to be a "missed" putt to get there, either.

You could hit dead center chains and spit back out, catching on the nub on the way down. Would you say the player missed, having hit the chains dead center?



i didn't say it hit the chains, i said where the disc is now its a missed putt. and yes if the disc hits dead middle chains and bounces out last i checked its a missed putt. a good putt but still missed. or do you play by different rules?


If the disc hits dead middle chains, bounces out and hangs on the nub, it's not missed as long as the player retreives it before it falls off/out. I play by the PDGA's rules, whose do you play by?
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby ferretdance03 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:08 pm

IdahoLefty wrote:
ferretdance03 wrote:
IdahoLefty wrote:...10 out of 10 times you hit the basket where the disc is and its going to roll away...

Obviously not, that putt stuck. Plus, for the disc to hang like that on the nub, you figure it can't be perfectly vertical outside the plane of the basket, so technically, a fraction of the disc actually is in.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Don't be mad 'cause I'm right. Or 'cause I can over analyze better than you. :wink:
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