Tuning a disc

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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Parks » Thu May 20, 2010 2:16 pm

veganray wrote:Tech standards also require a disc to have "have a circular, saucer-like configuration" (GUIDELINES & PROCEDURES FOR MANUFACTURERS TO CERTIFY THAT EQUIPMENT COMPLIES WITH PDGA TECHNICAL STANDARDS, Section I.C.1). Any tuning would cause an originally-circular disc to become deformed & non-circular. Therefore, tuning fails your newly-contrived rule, as well.


This is untrue.

The only example I can think of where this happens is with an Epic. If someone is tuning other discs to be more or less stable then they try to do it uniformly, in my experience.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Parks » Thu May 20, 2010 2:18 pm

veganray wrote:Hogwash! The breaking in of a baseball glove is not specifically prohibited in the rules of baseball, while a player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics is specifically prohibited in the rules of disc golf.


Horsepussy! You called out Chuck's example of breaking in a disc, which is certainly allowable in the rules as normal use, which is not prohibited at all.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:22 pm

Parks wrote:
veganray wrote:Tech standards also require a disc to have "have a circular, saucer-like configuration" (GUIDELINES & PROCEDURES FOR MANUFACTURERS TO CERTIFY THAT EQUIPMENT COMPLIES WITH PDGA TECHNICAL STANDARDS, Section I.C.1). Any tuning would cause an originally-circular disc to become deformed & non-circular. Therefore, tuning fails your newly-contrived rule, as well.


This is untrue.

The only example I can think of where this happens is with an Epic. If someone is tuning other discs to be more or less stable then they try to do it uniformly, in my experience.


You're just wrong.

It would take some extremely finely calibrated equipment and a more-than-working knowledge of solid & planar geometry to take a solid disc with a circular projection, bend it, and keep a circular projection. Nobody could do it buy hand, either accidentally or on purpose.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:24 pm

Parks wrote:
veganray wrote:Hogwash! The breaking in of a baseball glove is not specifically prohibited in the rules of baseball, while a player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics is specifically prohibited in the rules of disc golf.


Horsepussy! You called out Chuck's example of breaking in a disc, which is certainly allowable in the rules as normal use, which is not prohibited at all.

If you, like Chuck, consider throwing a disc into a brick wall with the end goal of making it less overstable not "a player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics", then you are wallowing in the same amoral pigsty that he is.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:26 pm

You know I'm keeping a database of all of y'all unrepentant disc-tuners (and other types of cheaters). If I ever see you on my card in a PDGA event, let the games begin!
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Timko » Thu May 20, 2010 2:27 pm

Ray, you live in VA, right?
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby jubuttib » Thu May 20, 2010 2:28 pm

I've yet to buy a disc that wasn't a bit deformed out of the box, often more than my "recovered discs" (beat up discs tuned back to as close to the original flight I can manage). To test this I put the disc on a sheet of glass (my table) and knock around the rim. There are always some parts of the rim that knock more, meaning the disc is bent and the bottom isn't touching the glass uniformly. I usually go about resetting my discs to a point where I can't really tell the difference or I get bored after 20 minutes of furious knocking.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu May 20, 2010 2:33 pm

I slept well at night without even a tinge of amorality when making practice throws into a wall during the 90s. Now I do it into a net when available. Practice throws into a wall are simply a more efficient way to get a similar effect from practice rounds throwing into trees and it's more environmentally sensitive. There's no control over where the discs make contact whether throwing into trees or walls and each disc would have a different wear pattern unlike direct manipulation with a tool.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:37 pm

Timko: Y

jubuttib: 802.01A is one more horribly written PDGA rule that is never enforced and, though enforceable in theory, not so in practice. (See a theme here?) I was merely destroying Parks's idea that tuning should be allowed with the caveat that if a tuned disc then violated the tech standards that it would be illegal, as any real-world tuning would make a disc violate the tech standards, even if, miraculously, it met them at the time of its production.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:41 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:I slept well at night without even a tinge of amorality when making practice throws into a wall during the 90s. Now I do it into a net when available. Practice throws into a wall are simply a more efficient way to get a similar effect from practice rounds throwing into trees and it's more environmentally sensitive. There's no control over where the discs make contact whether throwing into trees or walls and each disc would have a different wear pattern unlike direct manipulation with a tool.

While that's all well & good (I am particularly moved by the soft, violin-backed "environmentally sensitive" red herring, but I have learned to expect no less from you), it doesn't change the fact the throwing a disc into a wall to make it more understable (to which you have admitted above) is inarguably a "player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics" and not "nevitable wear and tear from usage during play". If you sleep well at night knowing that, more power to you and your utter lack of respect for the rules & your competitors.

And that lack of a twinge - that IS amorality, my friend.
Last edited by veganray on Thu May 20, 2010 2:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu May 20, 2010 2:42 pm

When there's real money in the sport, I could see a scenario at the pro level where only new factory discs could be used similar to how the baseballs, soccer balls and footballs are provided for those competitions. Of course, that would mean more consistency and reliability of disc production which still has a ways to go.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu May 20, 2010 2:45 pm

While that's all well & good (I am particularly moved the soft, violin-backed "environmentally sensitive" red herring, but I have learned to expect no less from you), it doesn't change the fact the throwing a disc into a wall to make it more understable (to which you have admitted above) is inarguably a "player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics." If you sleep well at night knowing that, more power to you and your utter lack of respect for the rules & your competitors.

You're just jealous that you didn't learn of this practice method before, but then that's why we have this forum to share ideas. The rules can be your friend if you understand how to interpret them.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Timko » Thu May 20, 2010 2:48 pm

Chuck, you do understand Ray's point that the rules do state that you can't do what you're doing, right? Like I said earlier, some sort of modification to the rule that allows tuning and disallows factoring would be best, but the reasoning that "it's been done since we laid out the rules" just isn't a good one.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Thu May 20, 2010 2:52 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:You're just jealous…

Debate technique of champions!
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby homebrew » Thu May 20, 2010 3:00 pm

What if my mom makes a post-production mod to my disc? She's definitely not a player.
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