Wrist roll help

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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby sunspot » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:09 pm

RustyP wrote:I used to putt with my thumb at 12 o'clock before the stroke, releasing close to 3 o'clock...which caused a lot of spin. That part was easy to fix: I just started with my thumb at 3, which forced the disc out of my hand with the thumb at/near 6 o'clock...I could immediately tell that this forced more of a push than a spin. However, I was still having trouble getting the nose down.

This past weekend Blake pointed out something that I had never noticed before...even though I was releasing with my hand pretty much at the back of the disc, I was rolling my wrist in upon release (thumb towards the ground) which was causing most of the nose-up. Blake demonstrated that the wrist needs to open outward(to the right for right-handers) almost 90-degrees with the forearm, with the index finger pointing slightly downward. With this stroke the disc comes out flat and dives nose-down as soon as it loses velocity...which made aiming at the apex much easier for me to understand. After throwing just 20-30 putts focusing on opening my wrist in the correct direction, I could already see a big improvement.

...hopefully I explained all of that right...


You got a hands on lesson from Blake? Sweet.
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby ferretdance03 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:41 pm

JKP wrote:
JKP wrote:
ferretdance03 wrote:I'm assuming that Rusty's holding the disc, with the base of his thumb at 3 o'clock, not the tip.

As for a good push putter, Climo is a decent example. :)



oh so being as i showed, the base of his thumb is at 3..tip at 9?

That's the way I'm reading it, and the way I putt as well.
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby RustyP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:33 am

ferretdance03 wrote:I'm assuming that Rusty's holding the disc, with the base of his thumb at 3 o'clock, not the tip.

As for a good push putter, Climo is a decent example. :)


Nope, I'm talking the tip of my thumb (fingerprint area)...but after putting practice last night I noticed that it wasn't quite at 3, but rather right in between 2 and 3. If the base of my thumb was at 3, the tip (where I'm putting pressure) would almost be at 12. If I had a camera I could take a picture of what I'm talking about...
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby ferretdance03 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:11 am

So you hold/position your thumb almost parallel to your forearm?
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby RustyP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:54 am

ferretdance03 wrote:So you hold/position your thumb almost parallel to your forearm?

Image
Took a pic to show you how I hold my putter before release. For reference, assume that the "DISContinuum Disc Golf Club" text is perpendicular to the line pointing directly from the center of the disc to the basket.

You can see that my thumb is at about a 20 to 25-degree angle with the bottom half of my index finger, with the tip pressed just north of 3 o'clock. The swing starts between the crotch and belt line, almost touching the body, and should finish around belly-button height with the arm not fully extended (short arm pitch putt)...the whole swing should be on a straight line with the basket. Ideally, the disc should release when it's at belly-button height, but mine still comes out a little higher. At the point of release the thumb needs to be at or near 6 o'clock and the wrist needs to open outward (to the right for right-handers)...this will cause the disc to leave from near the bottom/back of the palm, forcing the nose down.

Blake had us practice this quick/short stroke from 10' in until we got the form right...then slowly moved out further. The next step is aiming-for / throwing-to the apex of the disc's flight and allowing it to dive nose-down from that point straight into the basket. This part just started to click for me last night, so I need some more practice before I can accurately describe it in a way that would be helpful.
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby ferretdance03 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:23 am

Gotcha. My thumbnail would be almost on top of the pumpkin, hence my confusion on your clock positioning system. :D

I'm still a little fuzzy on this:
RustyP wrote:At the point of release the thumb needs to be at or near 6 o'clock and the wrist needs to open outward (to the right for right-handers)...this will cause the disc to leave from near the bottom/back of the palm, forcing the nose down.

Similar to rolling your wrist in on a drive?
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby RustyP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:24 pm

ferretdance03 wrote:Gotcha. My thumbnail would be almost on top of the pumpkin, hence my confusion on your clock positioning system. :D

I'm still a little fuzzy on this:
RustyP wrote:At the point of release the thumb needs to be at or near 6 o'clock and the wrist needs to open outward (to the right for right-handers)...this will cause the disc to leave from near the bottom/back of the palm, forcing the nose down.

Similar to rolling your wrist in on a drive?

Similar...but it feels more like uncocking the wrist abruptly...I guess I'm trying to say that with a distance drive I can't force wrist extension (it just happens), but on this putting motion I consciously open my wrist that direction.

Here's a pic that shows where the hand should be after the disc comes out (I had to take it in the bathroom at work...the only place I can simulate my putting swing over and over again without looking crazy ;) ):
Image

Saying that the thumb needs to be at 6 o'clock upon release might be a little inaccurate now that I think about it. Mine is probably closer to 5, but I'm focusing on trying to get to 6, which is what seems to be the trick for me. Also, in the pic above, my hand is a little higher than Blake recommended...should be a few inches lower for a true short-arm pitch putt.

I'm hoping Blake will chime in on this to make sure I'm explaining all of this correctly :?
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby Blake_T » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:06 pm

Saying that the thumb needs to be at 6 o'clock upon release might be a little inaccurate now that I think about it. Mine is probably closer to 5, but I'm focusing on trying to get to 6, which is what seems to be the trick for me. Also, in the pic above, my hand is a little higher than Blake recommended...should be a few inches lower for a true short-arm pitch putt.

I'm hoping Blake will chime in on this to make sure I'm explaining all of this correctly



you are explaining it correctly. once you get the feel for it the minor details like exactly where your thumb is, etc. become minor. the best example of this is probably the putts i threw when i just picked up the disc off the ground and immediately flung them while i was still lifting it up.

as for your arm height, that will change based upon how high you are trying to throw the putt. if you need to apex it 2' above the basket you will have a much higher release point than if you are just blasting it in from 8'.

regardless of what style of putting you use, the key is really getting your hand behind the disc (caused by extending your wrist).
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby RustyP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:10 pm

Blake_T wrote:
Saying that the thumb needs to be at 6 o'clock upon release might be a little inaccurate now that I think about it. Mine is probably closer to 5, but I'm focusing on trying to get to 6, which is what seems to be the trick for me. Also, in the pic above, my hand is a little higher than Blake recommended...should be a few inches lower for a true short-arm pitch putt.

I'm hoping Blake will chime in on this to make sure I'm explaining all of this correctly



you are explaining it correctly. once you get the feel for it the minor details like exactly where your thumb is, etc. become minor. the best example of this is probably the putts i threw when i just picked up the disc off the ground and immediately flung them while i was still lifting it up.

as for your arm height, that will change based upon how high you are trying to throw the putt. if you need to apex it 2' above the basket you will have a much higher release point than if you are just blasting it in from 8'.

regardless of what style of putting you use, the key is really getting your hand behind the disc (caused by extending your wrist).

Awesome...good to know I'm heading in the right direction!
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby Blake_T » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:15 pm

The next step is aiming-for / throwing-to the apex of the disc's flight and allowing it to dive nose-down from that point straight into the basket.


the only thing i might change is this. i was putting nose down a lot by accident heh, basically poor timing due to lack of practice and putters that are heavier than i can comfortably pop hard on longer putts (heavier putters nose down more easily). a flat drop from the apex (due to gravity) is ideal. nose down works if you want it to drop more aggressively.
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby RustyP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:29 pm

Blake_T wrote:
The next step is aiming-for / throwing-to the apex of the disc's flight and allowing it to dive nose-down from that point straight into the basket.


the only thing i might change is this. i was putting nose down a lot by accident heh, basically poor timing due to lack of practice and putters that are heavier than i can comfortably pop hard on longer putts (heavier putters nose down more easily). a flat drop from the apex (due to gravity) is ideal. nose down works if you want it to drop more aggressively.


Got it. On longer putts (lets say 60-70'), where you have to apex several feet above the basket, will a putter that was released flat turn nose down on it's way into the basket, or should it (ideally) remain flat the entire time?
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby Blake_T » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:17 pm

Got it. On longer putts (lets say 60-70'), where you have to apex several feet above the basket, will a putter that was released flat turn nose down on it's way into the basket, or should it (ideally) remain flat the entire time?


ideally flat. nose down will struggle to get there. the greater the nose down the faster the drop rate. you only really want to use nose down if you are going over an obstacle or you want it to die really quickly after passing at chain height on a miss.

at that range is also where you can add the 1 degree of hyzer or 1 degree of anhyzer trick i showed you.
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby Beetard » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:48 pm

anhyzer always decreases my distance and makes the disc drop faster
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby JKP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:38 pm

How far should i be cranking my wrist back from the point shown in the picture? 90 degrees back from therE?
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Re: Wrist roll help

Postby JKP » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:44 pm

Im generally putting right foot in front left (not squared up like most that throw from between there legs).. I push from belly button straight forward. Dont know if that helps.. Im still having a problem rolling my wrist over
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