Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby black udder » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:04 pm

keep throwing slow and building up your speed coming in and going out. You'll never be really fast coming in, just enough to get the momentum going so the wrist curls inward towards the elbow joint when you pull into the right pec. Then when you pull, get used to pulling later and faster. Add some lower body power and remember to stop the elbow and you'll get more pop. It's a matter of building up your timing.

I believe that keeping both feet planted as you pull helps with power. Most of the stronger players seem to do that. People that are twirling on their plant foot and pulling with their back foot in the air don't seem to get as much power. Probably not a rule, might just be an easier way to generate lower body power vs having much better form.

I'd bet that as you increase your speed you also allow the disc to come away from your body and in more of an arc than when you are slower and can focus on your pull line.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:39 pm

JHern wrote:I'm still seeing improvement in my throws after watching this video, and I'm beginning to better understand the mechanics of getting the disc in position for a good snap.

First, I've learned that a lot of arm speed coming into the hit is bad because there is no way in hell my grip is strong enough to hold onto the disc as my wrist curls up when everything is going into it with so much momentum. My fingers simply pop off, and all the snap is lost.

So, then I slow down the momentum going into the coiling of the wrist and I can hold onto the disc. I then get wrist extension by letting the wrist uncoil open and having the disc rip off the index-thumb pivot.

I also have to slow down to get the active opening of the wrist, the forced forward flick of the wrist and disc, to work.

Once I've slowed down to accommodate my slow wrist opening reflexes and weak grip, I get distances of 250 ft max. Putting a little more shoulder pull into it I can get back over 300 ft by adding arm speed, but I lose a little bit of wrist extension.

Thus, I foresee myself riding this peak between arm speed and snap, trying to maximize what each has to offer, as I gradually build up enough strength and the right timing to get truly longer distance flights via greater momentum going into the coiling with a better grip and feel to hold onto the disc without slippage.

Does this make sense?


Yes. Everything you said seems correct.

However, the disc slipping out is alos a symptom of not getting the "back of the disc" (hea of the hammer) inside your pull line (it should brush your chest). then of course you have to "get around" on the disc at the snap.

It is just like ball golf. You can swing hard down at the ball but if you never release the clubhead you get a weak slice.

It is really the same thing.

Handle in... down the line
release the head
Smooth.

If you are going to add force add it to the base of the handle. It is a very small motion, but it has tremendous leverage.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby JHern » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:28 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:
JHern wrote:I'm still seeing improvement in my throws after watching this video, and I'm beginning to better understand the mechanics of getting the disc in position for a good snap....

Yes. Everything you said seems correct.

However, the disc slipping out is alos a symptom of not getting the "back of the disc" (hea of the hammer) inside your pull line (it should brush your chest). then of course you have to "get around" on the disc at the snap....if you are going to add force add it to the base of the handle. It is a very small motion, but it has tremendous leverage.

I get it now. I need to get out to a field and drill in order to make this an integral part of my throw, but I'm feeling the snap now, and I'm beginning to make throws over 300 ft with little effort. Good stuff!
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby bcsst26 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 am

Just wanted to send a big thanks out to Bradley. After a long wait I finally got out to try these things. All I have to say is wow. I think I can say now that I finally have it. All the throws in the past year where it felt like I had it but couldn't reproduce them or lost it after a while I had the other night. Pretty much every throw. And if I didn't have it, usually from an early slip, I knew that I wasn't keeping that "head" in tight enough long enough. I am just starting out and only threw wizards but they were skipping more foward than I have ever seen. I think I can still keep the head in longer and leverage the disc some more but I am sure this will come. Way less effort and more consistent distance. I also applied this idea to my developing FH and was getting my wizards further than ever. I still have things to work on like getting more power going in and a better pivot but at least I have a good base to work from. It is nice to actually have something to think about when throwing. I would just think keep the head in, in, in then throw that other side. Thanks again and I look forward to any more videos or great discussion. For some reason the idea of the hammer has really clicked with me. Hopefully I will be back at it tonight.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby volmed10 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:00 am

Thank you Bradley!

I had become frustrated with my driving technique as of lately. I could throw a destroyer ~350-375' on a lucky throw, but I felt like I was putting too much power into my throw via my arm, and not enough torque with my axis. This has resulted in the majority of my throws being released at a very anhyser angle and decreased distance. It had become terrible inconsistent in both distance and accuracy, and it seemed that no matter what I changed, nothing helped. I stumbled across the link for this video last night, and one thing that I have always found elusive was my ability to produce snap. Much of what you said "clicked", especially pertaining to the proper grip (pinching between the index finger and thumb while letting the other fingers be relatively loose) so this morning prior to work I went to the local course and started practicing your technique on one of the long holes.

I started throwing my Rocs from a standstill with simply a reach back and pull, while concentrating hard on my grip. I could immediately feel and hear a snap, and the discs were flying a distance of roughly 250'. I was very excited by this, so then I broke out my teebirds, eagles, TL, leopards and additional rocs. To my amazement, I was throwing the rocs about 350', and the teebirds, eagles, and leopards 425-450'. And each throw was extremely consistent regarding accuracy. I had a little difficulty throwing my destroyers and wraiths, but I believe that may be due to the difference in grip because of the width of the rim when compared to the fairway drivers and rocs. This should remedy with time and experience. I now need to incorporate my hips and shoulders into the drive more, which should help my distance even further.

So once again, thank you.

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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby terazen » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:04 pm

For the last 2 days I've been working on putting more grip into the index finger and my fingertip got really sore both days. I had to quit after about 1 1/2 to 2 hours each time from the sting. Is this normal? I'm having good results, consistantly getting 285-300ft instead of 220-300.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby black udder » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:39 pm

terazen wrote:For the last 2 days I've been working on putting more grip into the index finger and my fingertip got really sore both days. I had to quit after about 1 1/2 to 2 hours each time from the sting. Is this normal? I'm having good results, consistantly getting 285-300ft instead of 220-300.


Yeah, throw that hard for that long and you'll get a sore index finger. You play a couple rounds of golf and you're only throwing 36 drives - and not all of them would require the tight grip you're probably using when you are practicing.

You shouldn't need to grip the disc that tight to get 300' though. That's more about relaxing, pulling late and keeping your weight forward and the disc nose down.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby Blink » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:24 pm

terazen wrote:For the last 2 days I've been working on putting more grip into the index finger and my fingertip got really sore both days. I had to quit after about 1 1/2 to 2 hours each time from the sting. Is this normal? I'm having good results, consistantly getting 285-300ft instead of 220-300.


Careful if you're twisting your finger, that happens if you put most of the stressful snap on one finger. I did the same thing to get the feel of hard snap in one finger, but after that I worked on distributing the snap more evenly in proportion to how strong each finger is. Also more grip is good but you mainly want to hold off on that extra firm grip until the latter portion of your swing. I usually loosen my grip in my reachback, then tighten it more and more as I pull across my chest. Just like your X step pace starting out slow and increasing up to the hit.
Last edited by Blink on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby terazen » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:15 am

Blink, I think I "distributed" the snap unintentionally today now that you said that. My best throw today was when the disc ripped from the last 2 fingers instead of just the index. It was my 2nd to last throw before I left and I think I did it instinctively because my fingertip stung.

I read a post somewhere where Dan said he threw like 8 hours a day for a week so I was wondering how the hell that happened. Maybe because he was throwing mostly putters? I'd like to throw longer sessions to see if that helps muscle memory better than quick ones. Maybe, maybe not...
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby black udder » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:59 am

Remember, when Dan says he was throwing 8 hours a day, he was taking instruction from Blake. He had something to work on, not just throwing a disc as hard and far as he could.

He built his whole throw up from scratch.

As Blink said, you want to delay your pull until the disc is coming away from your chest and delay your tight grip until after you are pulling. It's a timing thing and takes practice. I want to say Blake has said that a lot of that grip moment is instinctual and the more grip strength you have, the more you apply, the more you can apply, the greater you potential (within reason I suppose).

You want the rip to come off the index finger because that's the pivot point. If you look at Climo's grip, he uses the fork grip so that the last three fingers come off easily. He wants something that's firm, but disengages quickly and easily to leave just the index finger.

Honestly, at your distance, I'd focus less on grip and more on nose angle and weight forward. that will help you more right now.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby tigel » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:59 am

It's fun going to my local 9 hole course where the furthest hole is 340ft and driving with no run up and just practicing max spin/exploding. A lot of guys wonder how i can get a driver 300ft+ without a run up or even a long reach. Great information on here.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby black udder » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:33 pm

tigel wrote:It's fun going to my local 9 hole course where the furthest hole is 340ft and driving with no run up and just practicing max spin/exploding. A lot of guys wonder how i can get a driver 300ft+ without a run up or even a long reach. Great information on here.


I don't really throw far at all, but I'll second that people take notice when you chuck a disc over 250' from a standing position. So many people just think you have to have an x-step or run up to throw any distance.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby JHern » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:56 am

I was looking at some vids I took of some pros driving, with this Snap 2009 thread in mind. Check out Josh Anthon's drive here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84hAGAiO4E

Sorry the quality is not better, but I have what I have. He overthrew the hole, which is around 450-500 ft distance in that position. You can hear by the audio that the audience was rather impressed.

At any rate, some observations...
-Josh's elbow is bent in his reach back, but I notice that the elbow is bent in such a way that his forearm is pointed up behind him, and a line from his right wrist through his elbow points at the ground about 10 or so feet in front of him and in the same direction in which he throws the disc.
-The disc-wrist-forearm are locked into the same plane the whole time. I.e., due to the elbow bend, the disc is already oriented nose down at the beginning of the pull, and seems to remain so for the entire pull and release. He probably gets a great nose-down orientation by doing this.
-Josh pulls the disc in toward his right pec as his pull begins, just as the Snap 2009 instructions imply. But he does this earlier in his motion, and the disc reaches his right pec before his torso has rotated to the stage where it is facing 90 degrees to the target. It is pointing more like 120 degrees to the target when the disc reaches the right pec. Only then does he unload his hips and shoulders.
-It is almost imperceptible, but you can actually see Josh's wrist curling up as he pulls the disc into his pec. He gets his hand around the disc quite a lot, it is like a big coiling motion.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby black udder » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:20 am

Currently, I'm thinking that you don't turn your torso to face the target until the disc is coming away from your chest out of the right pec area. In addition, the feet stay planted until after you pull from the right pec. It gives you better stability for the pull. As for the torso, I'm thinking that you just can't get accuracy and power if you turn to face up to the target too soon. Thus, the majority of the pull is while you are shoulder towards the target and it's not until almost the finish that you're coming chest to target.

To me it just shows the finite timing that's required for a great throw.
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Re: Snap 2009 (NEW video added)

Postby JHern » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:00 pm

Yes, well I am going to try this when I get the chance, and focus on getting to the right pec even earlier with enough momentum to coil the spring of the wrist. I can almost "feel" (without having done it properly myself) the way that must feel, and the immense rip you get by doing things thusly.
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