Maxing out @ 300ft...

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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby black udder » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:06 pm

josser wrote:
Blake_T wrote:first try and just snap the towel.

gradually add more and more while still being able to get the towel to snap correctly.


I can snap the towel, but if I try to do anything that resembles my actual throw it's just a big old towel sweep.


Okay. First. Are you trying to snap the towel like you would snap it normally? If so, don't try and incorporate that into a throw. You want the loose arm, wrist, etc. but it's not the same motion. You stop and pull back to snap a towel normally. When you're trying to get the towel to snap from a disc throw the towel is popping because it's gone out so fast and reached the end of it's length, like a whip uncoiling. With your disc throw, you create all the power in your throw and you follow through, with a normal towel pop, you just bring your hand back to create that power.

If the towel is swooping, then it's one of two things, either the motion (as I mentioned above) or you are not keeping the towel in close to your chest. Try holding the towel in the right pec position and do your normal x-step (or whatever) and then throw from the right pec, accelerate with a loose arm and imagine you are going to hit somebody with your elbow that is standing where you want to aim. When you "hit" them, your elbow should stop briefly and throw your lower arm out. As that happens, pull hard and fast toward that imaginary person you just elbowed.

If you can work in opening your wrist/extending your wrist from neutral to about 1/2" past neutral, then you'll get more pop. If you accelerate late, like the other guys said, you will follow through and you should hear the pop.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby josser » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:39 pm

Thanks BU, I was trying to figure out how I could incorporate the normal towel snapping motion into my throw and couldn't see how that would work. You cleared up my confusion! Time for some fun in my basement to see what I can do.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Lithicon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:50 pm

I've been doing this more with a towel lately, just because of me really trying to gather my thoughts so I know what to put down on here when I'm explaining things. And, man it's really hard to do consistently. I've had some really hard snaps though, and I know I'm not translating this into my actual throw with a disc as much as I should be doing. It's harder for me to translate it over, I think. And, when you're doing it wrong, you arm starts to hurt. :lol:
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby black udder » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:30 pm

Lithicon wrote:I've been doing this more with a towel lately, just because of me really trying to gather my thoughts so I know what to put down on here when I'm explaining things. And, man it's really hard to do consistently. I've had some really hard snaps though, and I know I'm not translating this into my actual throw with a disc as much as I should be doing. It's harder for me to translate it over, I think. And, when you're doing it wrong, you arm starts to hurt. :lol:


If I do it a lot, it makes all the blood rush to my fingers and that hurts pretty quickly... think super pins and needles.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Lithicon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:01 pm

Well, that usually happens when I get a really hard snap on my drives if I haven't been doing it correctly for a while. But, once I get use to it again, it doesn't really happen.

This is mostly from doing the elbow stab motion and pulling through by it's self, without everything else. Heh, makes the muscle sore in my arm.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby pdorries » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:41 pm

maxing out at 300, use more shoulder turn
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby MotoDj » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:16 pm

pdorries wrote:maxing out at 300, use more shoulder turn


who is this guy?
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:13 am

If I do it a lot, it makes all the blood rush to my fingers and that hurts pretty quickly... think super pins and needles.


this usually = hyper extending the elbow = sign of mistiming.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Parks » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:30 am

Quick timing question: I get that you tighten up your forearm, wrist and grip at position 5 in Keltik's drawing (right? seems to work for me). Basically the instant before the hit.

However, I don't know when to tense up and put power into the elbow/upper arm. I'm thinking position 3. I'm not sure if this is part of what stops the elbow, a result of it, or unrelated.

Or does the upper arm get tensed up later, like right before tightening up the forearm at either position 5 or somewhere between 4 and 5?


Any comment on this, Blake or Beato?
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby josser » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:06 am

Blake_T wrote:
If I do it a lot, it makes all the blood rush to my fingers and that hurts pretty quickly... think super pins and needles.


this usually = hyper extending the elbow = sign of mistiming.


Mistiming as in waiting too long to do the post elbow-chop rotation?
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby emiller3 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:35 am

josser wrote:
Blake_T wrote:
If I do it a lot, it makes all the blood rush to my fingers and that hurts pretty quickly... think super pins and needles.


this usually = hyper extending the elbow = sign of mistiming.


Mistiming as in waiting too long to do the post elbow-chop rotation?

I'm curious as to the answer as well, because I sometimes get pins and needles in my hand. I know my elbow extension often occurs later than it should, but I don't know if that's the cause of the problem.

I was trying this elbow pause thing you guys have been talking about and it led to me throwing my elbow way out in front of my front shoulder before I initiated the elbow extension. I could feel my forearm accelerate open when my elbow stopped, but it was painful to my shoulder and I was out of position. I had to start consciously pausing when it reached my front shoulder, but I'm finding it much harder to get my elbow to extend with the same amount of acceleration. Do you guys consciously stop your elbow at a particular place, and does the elbow naturally extend when you do that?
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:00 pm

one thing i'm going to say here is that you guys are getting more complicated than it needs to be. the exact understanding of the what and the why doesn't make you (able to) do it.

that being said, i'll nerd it up a bit.

elbow extension facilitates wrist extension. if your hand goes numb, your arm is straightening all the way too early (before the directional change has occurred) and you are tweaking your elbow to the point that it affects the nerves in your hand.

the thing is, the arm shouldn't straighten all the way before the disc leaves. now ideally you would find the exact point where the arm straightens all the way at the exact time the directional change occurs giving maximum elbow extension force to trigger the wrist extension. however, no one really reaches that point nor is it something really worth aspiring for unless you can perform it with pretty much 100% success.

building off Brad's throwing a hammer idea, pick up a pen or pencil and hold it at one end and backhand it across the room (you don't need to use much if any torso rotation for this). try to make the pen fly straight ahead with a lot of zip. i'm 99% certain you will fling the pen without your elbow straightening all the way but you will likely have tons of wrist extension.

part of timing means you have to allow for certain motions to happen when they should and not trying to force an absolute body position without regard to the flow of the disc.

tossing a pen/pencil a dozen times or should probably give you a rough idea of how much the elbow will want to straighten (keeping in mind a larger mass object will make it straighten a bit more than the pen) in order to facilitate wrist extension.

always remember that it's how you impart the forces you generate onto the disc that are more important than any body position.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby black udder » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:19 pm

Blake_T wrote:
If I do it a lot, it makes all the blood rush to my fingers and that hurts pretty quickly... think super pins and needles.


this usually = hyper extending the elbow = sign of mistiming.


I won't doubt the mistiming and I have hyper extended the elbow, but it's not all the time by any stretch. It happens when I emulate a fast throw...just centrifugal force as far as I know.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:26 pm

I won't doubt the mistiming and I have hyper extended the elbow, but it's not all the time by any stretch. It happens when I emulate a fast throw...just centrifugal force as far as I know.


emulating a fast throw, rather than focusing on a throw that moves the disc with increasing speed can lead to that. the wrist releases when the forearm changes direction. it stops moving forwards and starts moving sideways to the right. the hyper extension happens when the directional change doesn't happen until you "run out of arm" and the abrupt forced directional change tweaks it.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby black udder » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:38 pm

Blake_T wrote:
I won't doubt the mistiming and I have hyper extended the elbow, but it's not all the time by any stretch. It happens when I emulate a fast throw...just centrifugal force as far as I know.


emulating a fast throw, rather than focusing on a throw that moves the disc with increasing speed can lead to that. the wrist releases when the forearm changes direction. it stops moving forwards and starts moving sideways to the right. the hyper extension happens when the directional change doesn't happen until you "run out of arm" and the abrupt forced directional change tweaks it.


It only happens if I throw without a disc. If I throw with a disc, I never have the problem. It's just the whipping of the open fingers... now, when you practice, do you open the hand? I hadn't thought about that until now. When doing it open handed, I extend my wrist with my fingers extended. When I throw, I'm still gripping, so I don't... might be the answer to my problem.
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