Maxing out @ 300ft...

[aDave]

When i reach back, i lose sight of the basket, and then there is a sort of blurry "give it all you got" phase and when i see clearly again, the disc is way in the air, certainly 50 feet away. How can you keep sight of the basket during the x-step and while reaching back ?

Or do you say that you should come out of the reach back and dont apply power till you see the basekt again ? Is this what you mean by only use your arm for disc positioning ?

you are starting your pull too early. you shouldn't try to apply force until you have visual contact.

most pros don't even complete their reachback until after their pivot foot hits the ground.

THIS!
While barely hitting 350', I've been dealing with a recurring shin injury that I discovered was coming from me going for the reachback at the beginning of my second step. Derp! A whole new world awaits.

[Monocacy]

My quest for distance has caused effed-up mechanics, a sore back, aching shoulder, and gimpy pivot knee. Yup, I was strong-arming, jamming the hip, etc. etc. To regain control, I made the following changes:

Switched to a stacked fork grip
Eliminated the X-step and switched to a shuffle-step (a la Masterbeato vid)
Reduced my reach-back, starting with the disc close to the left pec (RHBH)
(Perhaps most importantly) concentrated on keeping my hand on the outer wing of the disc as long as possible

I gained a ton of accuracy without losing much distance. In field work with Comets and Fuses, I was able to throw frozen ropes with just a touch of hyzer. Throwing flat became much easier. Standstill approach shots gained accuracy and distance, and I had to ease off my approach shots because I was regularly overshooting the target.

As a test, I teed off with Comets and Fuses on 27 tightly-wooded holes at Seneca Creek. The overwhelming majority of drives stayed on the fairway, and I scored better driving with midranges than I usually do with drivers. I found this quite encouraging.

I will probably play this way for a while before adding more of a reach-back. If all goes well, maybe I’ll be X-stepping again some day.

Still stuck at 300’, but at least I’m on the fairway.

[NoLifeLeft]

Seneca is a great course for mids.

[Smigles]

I changed two things recently :

- I started the Ken Climo grip. Game changing to say the least !
- I got me some Z nukes

First things first, the Nukes feel like cheating, they are so easy to throw. I get regularily 400 feet and 430 feet on realy good throws. The KC grip is also amazingly game changing, i have so much more feeling for the angles and i started hitting them much more dependably and regularly.

I noticed that i have much better throws when i do less rocking around with the throw motion before throwing, but just look at the target and focus on how my throw should FEEL. I did two practice rounds on my local training field yesterday, and parked the most evil hole twice with the feeling that i could have done so all day long. ( evil one, 400 feet long, tree line all the way along the left side, OB on the right and on the left under the trees. The target area after 400 feet is no more than 50 feet wide ). I have not parked that hole ever before, and yesterday it just felt so right, i know i'll be able to do so again tonight.

I get a feeling that the Ken Climo grip adds tons and tons of control. I just feel then angle of the disc, which is amazing. This gives much more confidence and much more repeatable throws.

Not a big upgrade on distance though Max went from 380 to 425, but i credit that mostly to the Nuke, not to my throw.

[cfair]

380'-425' is 45'. That is a pretty good jump... but also if you think the Nuke is like cheating then your only cheating yourself. If you are older then fine, for whatever reason the masters and grand master have more than embraced that they will never throw far for some reason and crutch on the nuke, boss and katana. But if your under 35' you can learn to get a fairway driver to do all that.

[Smigles]

Working on my fairway drivers I would not give up on my wide rimmed drivers though, they have their uses. And the nuke is the most amazing driver ever, such a nice piece of engineering. It's not a cruch, that's for sure

[TechnoHic]

I have to speak up here to say this thread is great!

I have some more reading to do, but wow! Cant wait to get out and try to translate this to my actual throw.

[hooked312]

yea I am so glad I found this thread. Now I can't wait for the snow to melt so I can really get some practice in. Thanks everyone

[Dookville]

I played for a couple of years back in the early to mid 90's and have taken about 15 years off. I started playing again in November of 2010 and have played a 100+ rounds since then. I use a 174g Magnet, 174g KC Roc, and 172g AvengerSS; what kind of distance should I be getting out of these discs. I am 43 years old, 6'2", 235lbs, and have played and or coached sports for most of my life.

[Unfcknblvbl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vD5GtDpc-A

Any suggestions you may have are very much appreciated.
Thanks.

[fanter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vD5GtDpc-A

Any suggestions you may have are very much appreciated.
Thanks.

Post in the "video critique" section of the forum and you'll probably get more responses.

[Jak3]

I didnt know you were supposed to keep your arm like jello during the pull. (as of a few days ago anyway)

So with only hip and shoulder rotation you can automatically position the disc to your right peck merely by the twisting motion/rotation right?

The only muscle really being used in the arm would be your shoulder keeping the arm on the right plane.

Am i on the right track with any of this?

[JR]

There are differing opinions. I know of long throwers in Finland that advocate strong arming right when the plant step lands. Many here have limp armed their longest throws. Limp until varying positions. Everyone is different so the best acceleration point for you in the short term needs to tested. I have often seen people write here that you don't need to move the arm to get to the right pec position. It's not entirely accurate for my anatomy dunno about others. For me leg and hip usage brings the front of the disc can inch left of the center of the body. From there on the arm needs to move. At how much of an effort may be form, speed and muscle power dependent. Physically stronger players here that advocate strong arming start their arm yank at or almost full power way earlier. Up to last season i have always lost D from strong arming. In all variations. I recently thought of my work where i lift up to 35 kilos of weights with the arm with very short motions. That may be the explanation why i have thrown farther with a later acceleration. My muscles may be conditioned for short burst of power with about 10 degree motion range. It may be a practice issue too which method gives you most distance.

The only way to know is to go to a field and try out all variations of arm pull starting points and each acceleration rate at each starting position with the same disc and getting good throws from each version and seeing which way lands the farthest. Then for the sake of security try out at least dozens of repetitions with the best variation and close version to either side of the starting position and acceleration rates.

[uNicedmeMan]

Ok so I've been re-reading this thread because even though I'm not stuck at 300' (380' average with PDs) I think I'm still strong arming. This was confirmed through a recent video my buddy took of me where my shoulders were a bit ahead of my hips, I'm going to get him to take better vids of me when he gets back. My arm is also pretty sore after a day of ripping discs (this could be normal though as it is the beginning of the season).

Anyhow,
1- Is there a definitive way to know if you are strong arming?

2- Is there a drill to maximize the power of the legs/hips?

Sorry if I missed something that answered my questions earlier in the thread, they were most likely addressed in various posts.

[MrScoopa]

If the disc is not on your chest(in the pec region) before the start of the pull you are strong arming. The best drill to practice this is without a doubt the right pec drill.

The more I mess with things them more I realize the whole point of all of this is to have ALL the acceleration happen right before the disc exits. The last 12 inches or so - from the right pec on. The hips open. The shoulders open. The forearm swings out. Your foot pivots. Everything that contributes power to the throw happens like "bam, bam, bam". One after the other.

Go to the snap 2009 thread on about page 18 and look for the still-frames of Brad throwing. Look how soon he comes to the right pec. It's like ASAP.

I put this into good practice today and had a 400ft standstill throw that felt like an upshot. Just brought the disc to the right pec. Everything uncoiled. Effortless.