Wrist roll

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Wrist roll

Postby k2112 » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:42 pm

Blake,

Could you give a quick primer on wrist roll?

What it is, it's effect on disc flight, what causes it, how to fix it.

I keep seeing it pop up as a potential issue for some players in various forums, but don't quite have a good picture in my mind as to what is being discussed.

Thanks.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:20 pm

wrist roll is basically altering the wrist/hand orientation after the release of the disc.

i think of it like pitching. a roll over is similar to a slider. a roll under is similar to a screwball.

roll over makes the disc turn more/faster, often abruptly. roll under makes the disc fly more overstable.

the cause of it is simply that the orientation of your wrist/forearm changes at/after the release. as for unlearning it, i recommend using a high follow through.

my rule of thumb is: if you have to force the disc over to get it to fly straightish, you don't have the arm to throw it. what you'll find is that about 80% of players throw discs too overstable for them.

players that roll putters by accident often roll over (assuming they are throwing a stable putt & approach)
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Postby Rooster » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:43 am

sorry to revive an old thread. im having this problem as of late and a guy in my group saw me do it and said it was the only thing he saw in my form that was a problem. so my question how do i go about fixing this. when i do field work i don't see mt to it as often but i get on the course and its a factor. should i just concentrate on that factor untill its fixed or change my follow through to a more upward motion? or should i do something completely diffrent.
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Postby Eric O » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:55 pm

Wrist roll creeps into my form more often than I would like. I attempt to correct it the same way most everyone else would: driving with putters and mids for a while.

If you are rolling your wrist over at all you can see it immediately when throwing slower discs. They will dive right. When you can do this excercise and they don't turn right due to off axis torque you are on your way.
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Postby Terrence » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:12 pm

Blake_T wrote: what you'll find is that about 80% of players throw discs too overstable for them.


That is so true! My friend throws a heavy Star Wraith and a heavy ESP Surge as main drivers with wrist roll for some pretty good distance. I throw lighter DX Valkyries with smooth hyzer flips and straight drives for not quite so much distance and a lot more consistency. I'm not claiming to have perfect form, but my drives sure look sloppy when I accidentally wristroll into the tree.
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Postby KRooster » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:43 am

Yeah I'm having problems with wrist roll too (I think). Part of it is I keep buying new drivers, and I'm still looking for ones with the correct amount of stability. I have some that are way understable, and some that are slightly overstable for me. The only ones I can throw really well are slightly overstable, but when I practice with those for awhile and switch back to my mids it's like I forgot how to throw my mids.

I think I'm going to stop using drivers for awhile, as many people have suggested. If I do this, I'm not sure what grip to use though. It seems like most people use a slightly modified grip when driving mids/putters. I do have a grip that works better for me; should I practice with that?

Or, I can just bite the bullet and try getting good with the power grip. As long as I'm going to be doing tons of mid-practice, I want to make sure I'm doing what will get me the best results in the long run. Does anyone use the unmodified power grip when driving mids/putters?
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Postby Eric O » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 am

KRooster wrote:Does anyone use the unmodified power grip when driving mids/putters?
I use the same grip for just about everything until I get into the range where I have to start taking something off to keep from overshooting. Approaches, etc. I am trained in the arts of the 3 finger school of Shaolin. No pinky touching the disc except on fan grips. :wink:
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Postby Rooster » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:42 am

i use the power grip on everying from 75' and out. from there its a fan grip with my index finger pad on the bottom edge of the lip on my putter.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:01 am

I have something to try...

Try releasing keeping your thumb "up". Let me "try" to explain.

Wrist rolling that causes the disc to turn over is the reult of the forearm rotating clockwise through the hit. Like turning door knob clockwise. This also called "supination". The palm goes from facing down (typical disc grip) to facing up by rotating the forearm.

To eliminate rolling, stop supinating. Keep the throwing palm facing down through the entire shot (or thumb up). This will most likely result in a noticable heyser. I think it helps to think about keeping the thumb pointing to the sky (or on "top" of the disc plate) through the entire shot.

This is actually a little bit of a "blocked" shot.

BTW, the palm does not actually face down, but you could make the argument that the heel pad of palm is facing down in a typical power grip.

Interestingly, I have found that a more "palm on top" grip results in a nose up heyser, and a rolled under grip will lead to nose down flipping (while I would have thought it would be the opposite). I try to be nuetral for drives and mids ,and I throw putters more rotated on top of the plate.
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Postby KRooster » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:35 am

Hmmm thanks for the tips Bradley... I think that sounds easy, to concentrate on the position of the palm. I'll give it a try.

Also I notice when I throw drivers I totally ignore my wrist position, whereas when I throw mids if I don't keep the wrist down I get so much flutter the disc turns over immediately. Another reason to practice with mids...
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Postby Eric O » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:30 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:Wrist rolling that causes the disc to turn over is the reult of the forearm rotating clockwise through the hit. Like turning door knob clockwise. This also called "supination". The palm goes from facing down (typical disc grip) to facing up by rotating the forearm.

To eliminate rolling, stop supinating. Keep the throwing palm facing down through the entire shot (or thumb up). This will most likely result in a noticable heyser. I think it helps to think about keeping the thumb pointing to the sky (or on "top" of the disc plate) through the entire shot.
I went through a period where I was having this wrist roll problem frequently in order to try and achieve more nose down. As you allude to, wrist orientation is somewhat related to nose angle. It took lots of practice in order to be able to get enough nose down without supination. I wonder if this is a common developmental problem in the learning process?
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Postby KRooster » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:17 pm

Went out to practice throwing my mids today.... had a ton of problems figuring out if my wrist was rolling. I remembered Blake had mentioned (in some other thread, can't recall from when) that he uses a fork grip (or something similar) for mids.

Well I tried the fork grip, or at least the closest I could get to it, and BAM, the flutter disappeared instantly! So, I guess my problem was grip lock, not wrist roll. Argh so confusing... well at least I solved the problem. Anyone having problems with flutter I think should at least try the fork grip on the off chance that the problem is not wrist roll... as if a newbie like me is in any position to give advice :roll:

Only thing that sucks is I was looking forward to getting rid of my wrist roll and going back to my drivers and seeing improvement.... now I have no idea what to do to improve my drives. Seems like I'm stuck at 300' or slightly more for most of my drives. I guess that's probably not bad considering I started a couple months ago.
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Postby KRooster » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:36 pm

Errrr wait maybe it wasn't Blake that said they use a fork grip for throwing mids.... might have been someone else. Too much reading about disc golf technique scrambles my brain :)
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Postby daniebl2 » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:38 am

Anyone have any tips on how to cure wrist "Roll Under" ....Is this a typical symptom of not enough weight foreward?
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Postby Timko » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:42 am

KRooster wrote:Went out to practice throwing my mids today.... had a ton of problems figuring out if my wrist was rolling. I remembered Blake had mentioned (in some other thread, can't recall from when) that he uses a fork grip (or something similar) for mids.

Well I tried the fork grip, or at least the closest I could get to it, and BAM, the flutter disappeared instantly! So, I guess my problem was grip lock, not wrist roll. Argh so confusing... well at least I solved the problem. Anyone having problems with flutter I think should at least try the fork grip on the off chance that the problem is not wrist roll... as if a newbie like me is in any position to give advice :roll:

Only thing that sucks is I was looking forward to getting rid of my wrist roll and going back to my drivers and seeing improvement.... now I have no idea what to do to improve my drives. Seems like I'm stuck at 300' or slightly more for most of my drives. I guess that's probably not bad considering I started a couple months ago.


mmm...fork grip. Some 12 time world champ guy uses that, maybe you've heard of him? 8)
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