super sekret teqniques

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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby USAnarchy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:32 pm

From the sound you are hearing, you are getting massive SLIP.

That "snap" noise is really you just clapping with one hand. The disc is slipping out of your grip and then all your fingers are springing back on to your palm making the noise you hear.

True "SNAP" is basically you generating enough force that the disc RIPS from your hand imparting the kinetic energy of the throwing movement along with the spin imparted from the pivot point of your grip.

Is it confusing. YES. Do we have the technology to rebuild your throw. YES.

Blake can confirm/deny this, but I have found that when people are getting that loud noise, its because they are gripping too soon and as soon as you can no longer maintain that pressure, the disc slips out.

XvileX wrote:When I've been working on these backhand hammer drills, I lose all of my snap and the disc feels like it's slipping out early.


What grip are you using? Can you post a pic? Certain grips require certain physical apptitudes, in that they require much more grip strength to throw.

IF its an issue with your grip i have some suggestions i can give you.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby USAnarchy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:55 pm

I do believe that Mr. Källström "Pounds The Hammer": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQczUdcg8qU
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby keltik » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:18 pm

USAnarchy wrote:I do believe that Mr. Källström "Pounds The Hammer": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQczUdcg8qU


he does throw FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby USAnarchy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:31 pm

keltik wrote:
USAnarchy wrote:I do believe that Mr. Källström "Pounds The Hammer": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQczUdcg8qU


he does throw FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!


I Throw Far...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoKctBjWRaY <-- Full Interview
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby black udder » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:34 pm

jubuttib wrote:
XvileX wrote:Ok. I've been doing some thinking after my field practice sessions and I think this is a good place for me to ask the question with the given scenario and trying to work these drills.

In short the questions are: What can make you NOT get snap? Is it possible to get snap without wrist extension?

There is a lot of talk about how TO get snap, and maybe thinking about it backwards will get us going in a different direction to solve the problem and assist with these drills. I think I may be a unique case, although I could easily be wrong. :D When throwing normally I get MASSIVE snap. It sounds like I just WWF chopped somebody's chest. It's ridiculous. But even with that I'm only getting about to around 290 - 310'. When throwing normally, I can't say that I actively try to open my wrist like I do when I'm pounding the hammer.

When I've been working on these backhand hammer drills, I lose all of my snap and the disc feels like it's slipping out early. When it does slip out I can tell that I had everything else right, just something at the end fell apart. Also, when it's leaving my hand I can feel that my grip is just about to apex and there is a little pfft sound that I can hear the disc pulls off my first THREE fingers. (My normal snap is solely from my index finger.)

Any thoughts on this??

The audible *snap* sound has NOTHING to do with the snap we're talking about. =)


When you try to pound the hammer, the disc is coming out early. The force you are trying to exert is greater than your body position and grip will allow. An easy example of this is if you get your shoulders rotated around too quickly. You'll find that your arm is more across your chest than pointing away from the side of your body. If the disc has any speed on it, you'll have a hard time holding into it and it will slip out early. Try and keep your chest closer to 90 degrees from your target when you start your pull and see if that helps.

BTW guys, great write ups.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby matchu » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:07 pm

i need to go out this weekend and do more, I tried earlier this week and first forehand throw I pulled something in right below my shoulder. I then switched to backhands and had good results. Lost two disc, rrrrrr. that is three I have lost at that non discgolf course! I am happy with the results and the methods are a lightbulb going off, although I have knowledge of the snap, just really have to make myself do it, so it becoming second nature would be nice. so I will be doing drills with two drivers whoa is me.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby masterbeato » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:15 pm

when you "pull the hammer" you hold the handle and bring the head of the hammer around and fling it out just like trying to bring the opposite side of the disc around and fling it out.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby emiller3 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:06 pm

It seems easy to feel the weight of the disc and pound the hammer with a forehand and overhand, although I already throw those over 300'. But I'm still struggling to feel it backhand, especially when I start to incorporate it into my throw. It just seems like a really different thing to me, and I guess that's why Blake's having a hard time figuring out how to translate it universally.

I am having more success getting my timing and positioning down with a couple things I've changed back to lately, so I suspect I might be back to half hitting it anyway. I guess I'll just keep at it.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby Blake_T » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:06 pm

It just seems like a really different thing to me, and I guess that's why Blake's having a hard time figuring out how to translate it universally.


the hammer pound is easy to incorporate and teaches how to "half hit it"

keep in mind "half hitting it" is usually way beyond most people's "not hitting at all" method.

Blake can confirm/deny this, but I have found that when people are getting that loud noise, its because they are gripping too soon and as soon as you can no longer maintain that pressure, the disc slips out.


audible sounds have nothing to do with actually snapping a disc. pop is caused by either rim friction or the hands slapping the palm and has more to do with grip angles than anything else. you can have snap with a popping sound, you can not have snap with a popping sound. you can have snap without a popping sound, you can not have snap without a popping sound.

which is more important late acceleration or disc pivot? which should i focus on?


acceleration > disc pivot. you can pivot the disc without accelerating and it won't do jack shiz. acceleration = prime, acceleration + disc pivot = super. disc pivot - acceleration = sux.

Blake, would you mind reiterating your newer style baseball swing correlation? I think the differences between the two styles really translated well with me on the phone the other night and should be able to help others as well.


the old school swing = get the bat moving as fast as possible and try to hit the ball. this is a slap. strength ends up determining power.

the new school swing, the one that in this day and age is producing non-steroid .330 avg 50 hr 150 rbi players is different. you separate the point of contact from driving the ball. basically, you "catch" the ball with the bat head and then fling the ball over the fence with the bat head.

half hitting it = reaching the point of contact. full hitting it = reaching the point of contact and then flinging the ball with the bat.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby zj1002 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:32 pm

The great baseball hitters don't bring their hands/bat through until the split second the ball reaches their batting zone. The bat speed comes into play then and only then. The body lines it all up and very little acceleration is needed until the hands/wrist come thru. Not sure if you talking about this Blake, but I find it is a pretty similar concept to what I read here on dgr about late accel
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby cornelius » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:42 pm

could someone post a vid of the backhand and forehand hammer drills. i just want to make sure i am doing it correctly
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby josser » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:18 pm

emiller3 wrote:It seems easy to feel the weight of the disc and pound the hammer with a forehand and overhand, although I already throw those over 300'. But I'm still struggling to feel it backhand, especially when I start to incorporate it into my throw. It just seems like a really different thing to me, and I guess that's why Blake's having a hard time figuring out how to translate it universally.


Exactly the same here except my OH is a lot shorter than that. I still haven't translated the OH hammer drill into a field overhand, but I'm feeling hopeful.

The issue I'm having here is the same emiller3. It's the same as what happened with me with the pen drill. From a stand still I can do this tight motion that ends with a slightly bent elbow and my thumb pointing at the target, but when I slowly try to add more to the throw I feel like I never really had the "feel of the weight" so I can't tell when I lose it except that I start rotating too early and am not "pounding the hammer at 10-11 o'clock" (well 1-2 since I am LHBH).

From this position, just like in the Yo-yo drill, you will then swing your arm back around and pound the hammer in front of you towards your left, snapping your wrist and thus swinging the disc back around your hand and into a backhand grip.


Is there some educational merit or technique development point in the return swing in these drills other than just getting into position to do it again?

Does it make sense to go through the baby steps of the front-pec drill, but concentrating on hitting the nail? Is that the sensible way to get from the basic drill to a proper throw? Assuming I can get the feel for the backhand hammer hit!!!
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby Blake_T » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:45 pm

The great baseball hitters don't bring their hands/bat through until the split second the ball reaches their batting zone. The bat speed comes into play then and only then. The body lines it all up and very little acceleration is needed until the hands/wrist come thru. Not sure if you talking about this Blake, but I find it is a pretty similar concept to what I read here on dgr about late accel


They bring the bottom of the bat handle forward (to their front hip) and pivot their back foot with a good dig. This allows for a huge amount of bat head control to make contact. Upon contact you roll the wrists over and dig in hard on the front heel extending your arms and driving the ball. this also brings the bat head around at a speed much higher than would be possible otherwise.

On days when i could really "feel it" i would feel a definite separation from the moment of contact vs. driving the ball far. I was a cleanup hitter and had ~2 dozen high line drives that cleared 450' (including games and batting practice) before I quit playing in 10th grade. on some days it was harder to feel it and contact and drive would bleed into one action... these had lots of hard line drives but nothing nearly as fearsome.

back when i could still hit a disc hard i remember feeling a definite separation point from the "point of contact" which initiated the wrist coil and uncoil and each lock finger leaving one by one followed by the huge uncurling of the wrist and a firm tug levering the opposite of the edge around hard on days when i was really humming. i have only had ~5 of those days since 2002.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby Blake_T » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:52 pm

btw, i posted a writeup complete with pictures and videos :P

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220

it took me like 2 hours to write it up.

if you think it's worth it, please buy an @dgr email address for my "make my life less of a living hell right now" fund. signed the lease for the new place on monday and the owner reneged on their original agreement of giving us a day where we could move whatever we could on one day this weekend (since no one is living there right now) and letting us fully move in on the 27th without having to pay extra rent... now we're stuck either paying an additional $200 to move in on the 27th or we can't move in until the 1st (and we both have to be out of our old places by noon on the 31st). it's ulcer-iffic

that and the rack & pinion on my rusted out crapbox of a car is about to go out.
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Re: super sekret teqniques

Postby USAnarchy » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:04 am

Blake_T wrote:if you think it's worth it, please buy an @dgr email address for my "make my life less of a living hell right now" fund.



If Anyone Is Interested: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18832
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