Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

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Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby Fizzy » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:09 am

I've never felt very comfortable throwing backhand approach shots in the 100-200 foot range. Backhand involves more body motion and turning away from the target, which hurts my accuracy. Also I find power control difficult at <%50 power. Of course, lots of pros do it fantastically all the time. But, I've had a LOT more success throwing this shots forehand. Let me explain:

Say I'm 70'-150' out. This is too far for me to comfortably attempt any legal jump putt. Lately I've always been choosing the same shot: flick a beat Aviar P&A. I've found the consistency to be amazing. Every other round I throw one of these in. But the real benefit is not the occasional ching, it's ability to keep it near the basket. The thing is, with the lower spin/speed ratio (provided by the forehand), the putter stays straighter at low speed. The typical shot starts out flat or on a very slight hyzer (depending on distance), turns over to a very slight anhyzer and basically goes straight with no real horizontal movement. The best part is the fade, there's not much spin so there's not much bite either. By the time it's lost enough speed to start fading, it's going so slow it basically falls out of the air behind the basket with essentially no skip or roll. On slightly different angles, I use this shot to finish left, right, over/around obstacles, for mini parachute effects at the end (e.g. over bushes), with danger behind the basket... nearly always.

I've never been able to consistently throw backhands from 100'+ that have a legitimate chance of going in and yet still leave me with 10'-15' comeback putts and I think that's mainly due to the spin/speed ratio.

Does anyone else play this way and have any suggestions?

Has anyone else played this way in the past and quit? If, so, why?

Anyone throw amazing backhands that DO run the basket and still leave short comebacks? If so, how do you do it?

Anyone know of any top pros that utilize this shot?
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ForeverBlue232 wrote:It's probably a disc rated 12/7/-5/8. It will go roller and then when the fade kicks in, it will pop back up into the air and fade on you. hehehe
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby JR » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:30 am

I'm not sure but I would think that people generally have a faster wrist snap FH than BH. If so at such slow speeds the spin ratio vs speed might be better FH vs BH. That would account for the lesser fade. Snapping hard increases jump putt D. Nikko style of reach back to a staggered stance rear leg or partially behind it with knees bent sideways to keep them out of the way of the arm really adds huge D. Combine that with a jump putt and you might surprise yourself with the D you can get. I've never tried it but I will soon. OTOH I don't know how useful it will be for me because I already jump putt with Buzzzes to just shy of 200'. I've gone farther but it's not plannable D.

Hyzers thrown high can be run at the basket and in case of miss stay close. Unless you hit metal and get a bad kick or roll or both. That is not unique to BH though. Have you thrown approach throws with the elbow lower than the wrist? That helps in accuracy and power generation via adding to snapping power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby keltik » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:50 am

I do both. I'm not a great player but I don't eliminate any option inside 200'. I think throw more OH flop type shots in this range since I'm usually coming out of the schule :thumbdown:.

but if I'm in the open I'll usually throw a smooth BH shot like throwing a fastback at a friend. this is a very slow flying shot that will just drop (hopefully) within 20' of the basket. but if I must I'll throw a soft flick. I have had more throw ins with BH than FH.

the thing that drives me crazy is the folks in my league that throw a 75' open approach shot with a driver or a fast mid. it's like people are scared to throw a putter for anything but putting.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:20 pm

I do both, usually depending on wind and hazards (OB mostly). I tend to favor the backhand, and if I am giving it a bid I throw a hyzer with a new challenger (insert your overstable putter here) so although it was a sweeping hyzer, spikes in close to the pin. This usually leaves me 15' or so. I tend to aim for the pole or 5' right of it, but at the height that if I miss left it hits chains.
Forhand it is either a flattening anhyzer with a Challenger, or a helix approach with a Champ Rhyno. For a long time, I tried forehand only, as I also liked facing my target.

*Most of this is my solution for upshots in the 125-175' range. Around 100' I tend to jump putt and aim for dirt just in front and right of the pin.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby Smigles » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:57 am

A good sidearm approach is definitly a good thing :) If it works for you, dont change it.

I like to always throw hyzers within 200 feet. If the aproach is right to left, i throw backhand hyzer. If it is left to right, i throw sidearm hyzer. That way I never have to worry about the disc falling off in the wrong direction. But i come from 10+ years of ultimate, so sidearms are no problem for me.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby josser » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:35 am

keltik wrote:the thing that drives me crazy is the folks in my league that throw a 75' open approach shot with a driver or a fast mid. it's like people are scared to throw a putter for anything but putting.


The thing that drives me crazy is how many of these people beat me! :(
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby rhatton2 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:46 am

"Anyone throw amazing backhands that DO run the basket and still leave short comebacks? If so, how do you do it?

Anyone know of any top pros that utilize this shot?"

For the last six months I have been working on exactly this.

I had been frustrated for a long time by my rubbish approaching backhand as this put pressure on other parts of my game. A friend over here spent half an hour with me going through the approach and it revolutionised any shot up to 60 meters for me (approx 180')

The shot I now play is a very slightly nose up straight line at the basket, it leaves my hand and doesn't deviate off line (even on low confidence days when my form is dipping it will only go slightly anny and ends up a few meters right of the basket) , from within 40 meters (120'ish) it never leaves me more than a 6 meter (18') come back putt (even on the really bad days!!) if I miss left, right or high. I use a wizard for these sort of approaches, beyond 40 I might get out the Roc depending how I feel. I've been experimenting with using a driver with this grip for longer approaches where I wouldn;t want to throw a putter with a power grip and it seems to be working quite well for this too,

It took a rethinking of my short approach, I had had a clinic with Avery Jenkins last year where he had said he threw all his shots with the power grip and just used a varying amount of power, this is what I had been trying to do previously. I didn't tend to get clean and consistent releases and found it hard to judge power doing it like this unless I hyzered my approach. In February I had a quick clinic - the half hour desdcribed above - with one of the top UK pros Neil "Bruce" Webber and it just made all the difference

What I now use is a fan grip. My pinky is on the inside of the rim, the middle two fingers fan out for stability and control and the index finger I curl to about a 90 degree angle so the edge of the disc rests between the first two joints of the finger, the pad of this finger doesn't touch the disc. Most of the spin seems to be imparted by the disc pulling off this part of my finger. Its the exact same grip I use for putting.

The way it was explained to me which made so much sense was to think of the approach as less of a throw and more of an extension of the finger spring used in putting so you get a nice clean popping release. I would start out at the basket and just work my way back 5 meters at a time with three discs throwing the same straight line I would if I were putting at it, but just do this side on. Using more shoulder twist as I went backwards. So up to 20- 25 meters would just use the lower arm (see Edit below) from below my elbow then 25- 35 turn the shoulders away but keep my eyes locked on the target then further out start to turn the head away as well, doing this i found in practice that I was suddenly nailing shots in from beyond 60' without realising it and it seemed easy.

I now tend to nail at least one from the 20 - 40 meter range each round - these tend to be so much more rewarding than a hyzer approach as well as you can tell they are going in from the moment they leave your fingers, whereas with a hyzer its always a bit of a will it, won't it moment - I now hardly ever take more than two shots from within 50 meters, and I'm really not a very good putter my confident make rate only being with 15' (until recently it was 9' :shock: ). Next year will be my first full season on the British Tour using this style and I hope to win the amateur division with it. I've won my first one day amateur event recently using it, (my driving had gone to sh*t at the time as well so the approach was even more important) Its the confidence it gives you buy knowing that you have a chance of the shot going in, but will nearly always get it down for 2 if you miss that makes it so good. It also feels that i'm now playing the game the way it "should " be played.

The beauty of this as well is that i've found it holds up really well in bad weather. The disc doesn't tend to turn over into a headwind (the slight nose up angle and a fair bit of spin being imparted keeps them stable) Because most of the spin is coming from a rip off the top of the finger rather than a pad it doesn't matter if the disc is wet, it still rips. I can also use this same approaching method from strange straddle possitions to get round obstacles where I am square to the basket instead of side on and its is incredibly accurate like that as well, throwing out from the stomach/chest area.

As for top players using the sidearm approach I was watching the Dutch Open final last year which has a number of holes with OB close behind the basket (I got caught out repeatedly :evil: ) The winner Markus Kallstrom sidearm approached on all these sort of holes. He would aim at the ground right in front and just plant his sidearm there 2 ' from the basket, he never seemed to be going for the chains but just playing the sidearm as a safe in for two shot. (he was about 10 shots clear at this stage so could afford to) it was a windy day and it seemed he felt more confident putting that shot exactly where he wanted it low to the ground all the way.

EDIT: Actually been just trying this out at work. I hardly use the lower arm at all using this technique so ignore the bit about 20 -25 meters, my whole arm from the shoulder down to the wrist actually stays fairly locked in position (but relaxed) throughout and it is a shoulder twist that generates foward momentum before the wrist extends, the fingers spring open and pop the disc towards the target.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby JR » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:23 am

The most reliable ways of running it from long distances while not having a great chance are shots that have the disc flying slowly or impacting the ground near the basket while being at the right height at the basket. Steep hyzers will hit the ground near the basket but have a chance of rolling away especially if they hit the top or side of the basket. Elevators are low probability shots because there's not too much chain area to catch and they are difficult to gauge even without wind. Annies can flex out or roll easily so the margin of error is small and you have to be really great at getting everything combined simultaneously or the throw goes awry. You gotta get power, anny angle, nose angle and apex height just right to not blow by far, roll or flex out.

Mafa said that metal stops the disc. I think that everyone knows better :-) It is not to say that the baskets should probably be more consistent in stopping good shots. It's a matter of debate if the baskets should spit out bad shots or not. I see both sides of that argument to have valid points. From future professional televised sponsored by outside corporations sport point of view it would be better that bad shots were consistently penalized. Scoring spread is needed between players to raise the excitement of televised sports. The sense of difficulty and achievement is also needed so that the slow action of putting preparation and putting doesn't put the viewers to sleep. Drives on demanding holes certainly look difficult to viewers so putting may very well be a turn off for many viewers that aren't avid players and maybe don't know of the difficulty level but still enjoy watching. Yes such viewers exist in abundance in other sports that appear on the TV. In the US people are much more interested in statistics than elsewhere. Sports fans elsewhere vary in the level of interest there are many casual viewers that aren't interested in getting intimate with the background.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Forehand vs. Backhand: Putts/Approaches

Postby Smigles » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:15 am

rhatton2 wrote:He would aim at the ground right in front and just plant his sidearm there 2 ' from the basket, he never seemed to be going for the chains but just playing the sidearm as a safe in for two shot. (he was about 10 shots clear at this stage so could afford to) it was a windy day and it seemed he felt more confident putting that shot exactly where he wanted it low to the ground all the way.


From what i understand, this is the way to go, anyway ? Going at the basket from 40 meters is just asking for troubles. Better play a hyzer that lands 5 meters in front and to the right ( left for lefties or sidearm ) of the basket and skips a little left at the pole for the easy two. Same reason you dont go for the ace from the tee, too much risk for too little reward.

From what i have seen of top player footage, whenEVER they can, they play the hyzer. It is just the most reliable throw.
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