Extreme nose down and the right shoulder

[JR]

Work, work, work so no throwing for a while for me and fall rains start in two days with a drop in temps

Has anyone tried throwing with the disc rip at about 10+- something o'clock so that the arm is rotated clockwise from the shoulder socket? When the target is at 12 o'clock. I tried an exaggerated masterbeato grip with the rear of the disc raised to the innermost joint of the thumb today and indoors low power simulated throws with as much wrist down as I could wrestle I was getting the disc nose down without disc pivot at quite nicely rising arm angles. I would presume that one could throw reasonably high with a flat throw with the shoulder rotation and have the front of the disc lower than the rear at the apex.

If anyone has tried the shoulder socket rotation what have been your experiences and results in D? Does this strain the shoulder?

[JR]

No takers with the sekret techniques overlapping and eating away training time I think. What little I have done with it it seems that my arm speed drops probably due to the shorter length of the arm pull. But I don't seem to lose D and I got 440' with a Roadrunner in left rear winds but I also snapped actively with the wrist better than usual so I seem to be still in the half hit domain and the nose angle is better visible with hyzers and annies where the discs sometimes dive too steeply. In a way that is a positive problem. I clearly need more training with this.

[aDave]

This sounds like what happens on my anny drives.
The disc rips earlier and out too the left rhbh with anny angle giving mucho nose down.
These are my most accurate (controlled) off the tee too. (getting around corners)
Maybe I rotate my body and anny to flat and get good nose down on straight shots?
I would certainly love that!
we will see....
Of course this is assuming that I understand what you are talking about.

[JR]

Sounds right about the rip and to the left part. I do traditionally plant to the left of the line I'm on and lean from the ankle up to the right creating the anny and pull the arm so that the follow through is 90 degrees to the right of my side. Like a flat shot when I'm not leaning right. So far I don't know yet if I can get better results with flat throws but that's certainly something I need to work on. I was doing snapping practice and lightened my grip yesterday and got more D than ever from the longest disc I had with me on that day. I've come to suspect and have to check out that maybe rotating the shoulder should occur as late as possible in the throw so that the muscles are looser early on and you'll generate more arm speed until then.

Since I seem to be losing out in power generation and recouping back in the nose angle utilization of gravity I would assume that the left rear wind angle (optimal) pushed the RR annied just right to 440' which is beyond my normal D. But I was getting more wrist power from active snapping than before too so I can't credit the proper amounts of what part of D came from where to that throw. I have too few attempts to determine anything about D differences. These are interesting times for me but fall is upon us here in Finland and it's work, work, work for me. Ugh me wanna throw!!! Waah!

[aDave]

After some experimentation with the above:
( the accuracy of the following analysis is open to debate since I am cameraless and usually go it alone but for what it's worth.....)
for review, the technique that we are talking about consists of throwing with the wrist rotated anny but "ripping" at the point where the anny is really nose down and the disc momentum is aimed toward the target. this will inevitably prevent me from fully or even half hitting it but it's interesting and valuable nonetheless (I think)

1. @ 300' straight and flat: today I consistently parked 7 of 10 drives (!really!) and all 10 are within 10' throwing this way. this is with ~80% power and a straight up the middle xstep. So this is certainly a plus. I was spraying like a pissboner before trying this.
2. High annys ALWAYS stall out nose up.
3. Hyzers: On a low line, I can now flip my 170 pro destroyer to flat to the slightest highspeed turn. this feels good but I know I should be getting it further than I am (~350 max on a line drive), so OAT? I don't think so since the same throw with the same power will NOT flip my 170 z comet to flat. I never flip that thing and I can huck it out to ~300' with shitloads of height.
4. Haven't tried hyzers on high lines yet, but I eagerly await the chance to.
5. I feel like the technique will never allow for as much arm speed as the "normal" approach, but it may yet prove useful. It certainly does for tunnels.
6.Dammit! I can feel 400' ! I CRAVE 400'.
7. Still can't putt worth a shit.
8. mid game still pathetic.


anyway...thoughts? critiques? other folks trying this route?

[JR]

When you throw that Comet high the rising angle reduces the chances of flipping it over so I wouldn't draw too far reaching conclusions based on that vs what the Destroyer does or should do. I'm surprised that you can't get the nose down on high annies. I can. Does the disc slip early out of your hand? That would raise the apex and not get you as far weight forward so it may very well stall out flying nose up. If you manage to turn more toward the target and get weight forward thus nose down things might look different.

I've been busy trying other stuff so I don't where I'd be at now. The initial results pointed clearly at lesser arm speed that can be achieved versus normal throwing styles. Which is good news for Comets and other slower understable discs. Have you had a chance of riding the wind on high lines with the wind pushing the bottom of the flight plate? That should help in equalizing the lesser arm speed.