"Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

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"Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby Earl » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:29 pm

I was checking out some disc golf vids on YouTube and found this video of Dixon Jowers. Look at his drive at the very beginning of this video and notice the position of his "off-arm" when he pulls through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-D3_kmvmk

I've never seen anyone put their off-arm way up the air like that during their pull before...everyone I know keeps their off-arm down close against their torso. It looks so awkward! Is there some advantage he's getting by keeping his arm up in the air like that? Is he able to pull the disc closer to his chest with his arm up in the air? Dixon Jowers looks pretty chubby in the video...is having the off-arm up in the air like that better for chubby people?

I'm always tinkering with my drive form and looking for ways to increase my snap. If having my off-arm up in the air would allow me to bring the disc closer to my chest during my pull-through then I might give it a try and see what happens. Before I do, though, I want to ask everyone on this forum whether or not having my off-arm up in the air, rather than close to my side, is a good idea. What are the pros and cons? Does anyone else put their arm up in the air? If so, why?
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby keltik » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:46 pm

don't concentrate on your "off arm" so much. Feldberg has his arm up in the air a bit when he pulls as well. the key is that when you are making your rotation is that your "off arm" is close to your body and out of the way.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby Earl » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:16 pm

keltik wrote:the key is that when you are making your rotation is that your "off arm" is close to your body and out of the way.


That's exactly the point I'm addressing.

When Dixon Jowers is making his rotation, his "off-arm" is not close to his body at all...it's up in the air.

The motion happens very quickly in the video I posted, and it's not the best angle, but during his pull-through you can see the disc travel underneath his left armpit with his off-arm in the air. I suppose his arm is out of the way enough to not be a detriment to his pull-through--I'm just trying to figure out if this is just an unusual "style" of throwing, which has no bearing on the amount of snap he gets, or if there is some particular reason he keeps his arm up like that.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby keltik » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:54 pm

If you look at the other players that truly bomb they hardly move their off arms. to me it reminds me of when I first started and was strong arming all my throws and I had to use my off arm as a crank of sorts. I would say it's more just an unusual style of throwing. I don't recommend emulating that move.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby JR » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:22 pm

Check out Linus Åström on youtube search lcgm8 mfranssila Tali Open President's Cup videos. He does generate more power with the left arm high than lefty hockey slap motion with it.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby josser » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:28 pm

You can use your off-arm to generate more speed at the hit by starting far away and bringing it in close. Thanks conservation of angular momentum.

But if you check our Markus Kallstrom's drive, you will see he does not do this.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby JHern » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:46 pm

Earl wrote:
keltik wrote:the key is that when you are making your rotation is that your "off arm" is close to your body and out of the way.


That's exactly the point I'm addressing.

When Dixon Jowers is making his rotation, his "off-arm" is not close to his body at all...it's up in the air....


Close to the body is not the point. Close to the axis of rotation (i.e., along the line made by your spine) is what is really important. Notice that ice skaters pin increases when they lower their arms all the way to the side of the torso or just as well if they raise them straight in the air over the top of their body.

Jowers gets his off-arm straight up in the air when he is throwing harder, which is probably closer to the axis of rotation than he could get it with it close by his side.

Just don't leave your arm pointing out away from your torso. Then you're fine.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby Earl » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:44 am

JHern wrote:
Close to the body is not the point. Close to the axis of rotation (i.e., along the line made by your spine) is what is really important.


That makes sense.

During the pull-through, the entire body is turning on an axis. I really like the "figure skater" analogy used by JHern. When figure skaters perform a pirouette on the ice, their rotational speed is much faster when their arms and other leg are pulled in close to this axis. When figure skaters allow their arms and other leg to move away from this axis, their rotational speed slows down. So, whether the off-arm is held up above the head or down against the torso, the main emphasis is to have your arm as close to the center of this axis as possible.

In fact, I imagine this is also the same reason we are instructed to keep the disc close to our chest during the pull-through: because the closer the disc is to the axis of our body's rotation, the faster our arm speed will be at the hit.

So, I suppose it depends on each individual's body-type whether or not to keep their off-arm up or down. Whichever position allows a tighter rotational axis for a given individual is probably the correct one. Maybe people with longer arms might get a tighter rotation with the off-arm down while people with short, stubby arms might try having their off-arm up in the air...just speculation.

For myself, I think I'll keep my off-arm down close to my side. It seems like having my off-arm up in the air like that would just add another unnecessary variable in my driving form.

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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby JR » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:54 am

Earl wrote:
JHern wrote:
Close to the body is not the point. Close to the axis of rotation (i.e., along the line made by your spine) is what is really important.


That makes sense.

During the pull-through, the entire body is turning on an axis. I really like the "figure skater" analogy used by JHern. When figure skaters perform a pirouette on the ice, their rotational speed is much faster when their arms and other leg are pulled in close to this axis. When figure skaters allow their arms and other leg to move away from this axis, their rotational speed slows down. So, whether the off-arm is held up above the head or down against the torso, the main emphasis is to have your arm as close to the center of this axis as possible.

In fact, I imagine this is also the same reason we are instructed to keep the disc close to our chest during the pull-through: because the closer the disc is to the axis of our body's rotation, the faster our arm speed will be at the hit.

So, I suppose it depends on each individual's body-type whether or not to keep their off-arm up or down. Whichever position allows a tighter rotational axis for a given individual is probably the correct one. Maybe people with longer arms might get a tighter rotation with the off-arm down while people with short, stubby arms might try having their off-arm up in the air...just speculation.

For myself, I think I'll keep my off-arm down close to my side. It seems like having my off-arm up in the air like that would just add another unnecessary variable in my driving form.

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You're right about the need to keep the disc close to the body for added rotational speed. The best height depends on the sex, flexibility and body type. Everyone that can pull lower than the male nipple height should benefit from lower height as long as they can pull close to the body. Not everyone can. Because flexibility varies people should try out for themselves which height gives best D now. That may change with practice so it should be tested at least annually.
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Re: "Off-Arm" Positioning: High or Low?

Postby pg043 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:35 am

garret gurthie also has an under the armpit style of throw and his goes quite far
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