Help a newer player with his throw

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Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:50 pm

I am still a very new player. I have been playing 2 years, but the first year I played I had no technique. I have been reviewing the posts here about technique and have learned a lot. I only started working on a better form about six months ago. So I still may be doing somethings wrong. I recently moved to a town with no course (yet...) so I am logging many hours of field practice. Now to my issue;

I can throw my river 300-350 pretty consistently. It has a mostly straight flight path light a little high speed turn. I am finding that it doesn't matter what plastic I throw I end up with about the same distance (drivers that is). I have thrown everything from Boss, Katana and Halo to Teebird, vision and stalkers ( I can list all the drivers I have thrown about the same distance, it is long and consists of mostly innova and Lat 64.) Do I just not have the arm speed and snap or is there something going on in the throw that is incorrect technique?

I can't seem to get anything past 350.

Thanks again for the assistance, I have already learn a lot from this site.

If it helps for reference I can throw my Ontario mold rocs around 200-250, every once and a while I hit 285. Throwing on the high school football field really helps me measure distance :D
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Star Shark » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:46 pm

This sounds like it could be a couple of things. Probably a combination of the two.

1 - You're not getting enough snap (see the Secret Technique sticky thread in this section)
2 - You're not getting the nose down. There are lots of causes for this but for me I tend to not get my wrist down. I can throw just about any driver 330-360 and I've thrown all of mine over 360'. It's frustrating throwing an EagleX and an SL the same distance.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby JR » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:08 pm

A video of yourself is gonna by revealing and we can probably help you with analyzing that. And giving suggestions on what to try and how based on where you are now.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:57 pm

JR wrote:A video of yourself is gonna by revealing and we can probably help you with analyzing that. And giving suggestions on what to try and how based on where you are now.


Ok, what would be the best way to video my throw? I am assuming a side view and back view. Is there anything else? I will go out to the field today and shoot a video.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:05 pm

Here are the links to me throwing;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md1og415T-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz7zmE7r1D0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyO61baVrQY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP6mShqahsg

I thank you ahead of time for the help. I hope I can one day return the favor to a new player.


A special thank you to my girlfriend Destiny who helped film me while studying for the CPA exam.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby JR » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:01 am

Your form is repeatable so that is good for consistency and accuracy. At that power generation it should be so with a few tweaks you should retain that throw for controlled shorter throws. You throw a few degrees hyzer with the arm but move and plant for a few degrees of anny. Aligning run up direction and plant step position to identical with the arm swing you'll gain a little bit more repeatability. So for a hyzer I'd move from rear center of the tee a few inches right of the center line at the front of the tee. The plant step landing point would be a few inches right of the line you're running on. Vice versa if you're trying to anny.

You're not too much early with the arm acceleration but it could be a little later depending on your physical capabilities so I'd check which starting point gives the best D.

For added power generation=distance you should x step faster there's more room for acceleration in the final steps. You don't really twist the hips right which is a major power generation loss. The shoulders turn better but that may also be a slight improvement if done more explosively. The elbow chop and just prior to that acceleration is that of an approach throw. That has a lot of improvement potential. Have you tried to back hand swat a fly with a news paper? That is what you should go for in the arm swing. Just using to outer layers of the arm muscles for 98% of the arm swing might be beneficial see how it goes. Easy does it. No effort like lifting weights is gonna move fast because the bulged muscles are mechanical brakes to the motion so loose is fast=no effort until the arm is a couple of inches short of being straight. Then the fly swat or hammer pound to the right if you will. Hammer analogy implies more effort because hammers are heavy to swing around compared to newspapers. A good throw feels effortless and flies faster. Ain't that a scratcher?

As you gain more speed the disc is gonna want to rise so you should lean forward a bit more and concentrate on pushing down the wrist late in the throw to counter the rising tendency. Your arm swing maintains the plane a little while after the rip but it could do that for longer to be safe. It may require adding back and shoulder flexibility because the shoulder blade may collide with the back muscles.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:28 pm

Thank you for taking the time to watch my videos and help me with my throw. I think I am a little confused on the interpretation of your advice.

I went out to the field today to try and work on just the first part of the critique. I tried to bring my arm neutral and to step neutral as well. It was a disaster. everything was either a complete hyzer or anhyzered hard. Any tips or practice drills to help me fix these issues? I would like to get my control drive/throw working before I even think about gaining distance on a drive. I had no idea I wasn't throwing flat.

I guess I may not understand what you mean when you say I plant for a few degrees of anny. I already start several feet right of the center line when I throw. You mentioned in the post to start right of the center line for a hyzer. So I am not sure what I am doing to step anny. If it would help I can get a video of my footwork with a line down the center of where I am throwing.


As far as your description of swatting a fly; I envision a around motion when I swat a fly. I thought a throw I want to be pulling through. Any clarification be be most appreciated.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby JR » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:00 pm

I meant that for a hyzer you need to start at _left_ of the center line on the back of the tee sorry. And for a flat shot running on the center line is the trick.

In the video your last step the plant step that comes after the x step, which is the left leg crossing ahead of the right, should land just left of the line you are running on for an anny. That is what you did with the arm moving on a hyzer. For a hyzer you run from rear left to front right and land the right leg to the right of of the line you're running on. Just a few inches. If it's a steep hyzer with a very diagonal line on the tee you're running on you can land on the line you're running on without problems IME.

The back to front pull with the arm applies from the right pec to the disc leaving the fingers. Before that you can pull on different lines for added power generation but that's an advanced technique and first you should get the completely straight line down. The fly swatting motion is indeed a rotary motion just like the legs, hips and shoulder moving counter clockwise are. The rotary motions create most of the power in the throw. The rotary motion of the hand from the wrist is like swatting a fly with a rolled newspaper. When you accelerate the arm forward and straighten the elbow the acceleration bends back the wrist. When the arm is getting back straight the wrist starts to straighten and that is the rotary motion if you look down from above.

On top of the hand moving right from the wrist you should rotate right from the lower body parts with the momentum that you have from the x step. Christian Sandström says that you should plant hard (tensioning up the right leg muscles my interpretation) and rotate around the right leg pivoting so that your torso faces 90 degrees to the right of the target and you stop moving. You need the follow through for power generation and allowing the disc to leave at the correct angle.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:55 pm

Thanks for the clarification. I will see what this does for me in field work tomorrow and get back to you.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Floodj32 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:26 pm

I have been working in the field...

I am happy to report I have gained some distance and accuracy. I can consistently throw my Riots, Flippy Halos', Sidewinders, and Katana's 400 or a little more. I fixed the stepping anhyzer, I think. I am now releasing everything with Hyzer. It has been fine because I am getting a nice hyzer flip. When I am able to throw the disc flat I loose about fifty to sixty feet in distance. Any idea why this is happening?
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby Parks » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:54 am

It's generally easier to get the nose down with hyzer or anhyzer.

Flat shots are actually a bit tricky with regards to getting enough nose down.

Without seeing a video of what you're doing differently, this is my guess as to whats going on.
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Re: Help a newer player with his throw

Postby JHern » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:38 am

Floodj32 wrote:When I am able to throw the disc flat I lose about fifty to sixty feet in distance. Any idea why this is happening?


Is it turning and going into the ground without fade? If so, throw it through a higher apex, and try some other discs.

Is it turning a tad and then fading hard/stalling in the air? If so, get the nose down.
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