Correcting OAT? Help

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Correcting OAT? Help

Postby caleb91 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:53 pm

I am a beginner and I have only been playing for 6-7 months. I max out at about 350-400ft and my discs will constantly go right if im not paranoid about it. I throw a star katana, champ groove, champ monarch and dx leopard mostly. I am assuming I have OAT by what I have been reading. How can I correct this? Thanks a ton
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby aDave » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:57 pm

Learn to throw a Comet ~300' without flipping it.
That's what banished my OAT beast.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby Sean40474 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:34 pm

If your DX Leo is beat just throwing that might help as that can be a very sensitive disc. A Comet is a great disc and I think it is one of the best discs ever made; I have several of them in all different plastics and weights. I'd really like to think my form has gotten better from throwing this disc. I also love the Gazelle and throwing putter only rounds. I would imagine if you did any of these things for an extended period of time it would significantly lessen your OAT.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby AbelRod » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:58 pm

aDave wrote:Learn to throw a Comet ~300' without flipping it.
That's what banished my OAT beast.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby caleb91 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:18 pm

Thanks alot. I've been using the leopard a ton and it seems to have helped me throw all my other drivers alot farther and straighter. Thanks for the advise.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby fanter » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:59 am

AbelRod wrote:
aDave wrote:Learn to throw a Comet ~300' without flipping it.
That's what banished my OAT beast.



Doesn't that just teach you to adjust your release angle to accommodate lower stability? I'm not doubting you, I'm actually curious about it.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby aDave » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:57 pm

I release with slight hyzer for that shot for sure, but my Comet is a really slow turner and takes a while to flip flat. The Comet is really sensitive to wrist roll/oat. When I first got it, it would dive right as soon as it left my hand (rhbh). It took a couple of weeks of working on "smooth = fast" style technique before I could really rip it with full power.
I know a few locals who seem to think that they have cannon arms because they oat their destroyers into the ground. I suggested to one that he get a comet to work on his form. He got one and claims it's
"totally useless" since he can't get it to fly straight. He misses the point entirely.

So yes, part of it is adjusting to the natural tendency of the disc's hss to let it fly right at higher power, but it's more about learning to deliver that power cleanly giving the disc a chance to fly like it wants to. A Comet is a beautiful thing when you hit it just right. Mine carves long, slow turns to the basket, anny or hyzer, and gently lands flat every time. I haven't aced yet, but I know that when I do, it will be with the Comet.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby fanter » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:31 pm

Hmmm, okay. So to clarify:

The point is to be able to rip the disc at high power but ALSO to deliver that power in a way that doesn't torque the disc into the ground. Basically: controlled power.

What makes the Comet better at this than other discs? It's natural (or intended) straightness?
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby aDave » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:15 pm

From what I understand (I'm a noob afterall...), Comets are really sensitive to wrist roll.
I know that before Comet work I was stuck @ 250' on a flat release with the occasional griplock sailing high right for ages. I turned everything I threw right into the ground with the exception of my destroyers /katanas. After Comet, I can control the flip to get my sidewinders/tls out to ~350 with a lovely "hyzer=>flat=>right turn=>fade back left to ground" path. I can now flip the Orc to flat=>fade left out to the same 350. The katanas and destroyers now fly like they should, as in they are too much for me right now and I have to anny them pretty hard to get them to fly straight at all and they are no further than my orc/sidewinder/tl.
Basically I am delivering my power without much "english" at the release. Where as before there was some combination of pulling down on the wing at release/grip issues that were torquing the disc, now it just rips out of my hand when I get all my power in the right place at the right time.
Sorry I don't have the experience to sum it up any better...
Can one of you super badasses chime in and verify or correct me?
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby Ryan C » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:03 pm

I'd say the previous advice is pretty good. The key idea here is torque that is off axis. Focus on putting all of the energy and snap right along the axis of the disc. Pick up a disc and mimic your throwing motion, watching to see the line the disc takes throughout your pull and release.

This isn't a surefire fix, of course, because its difficult to exactly replicate your motion slowly. Things change and get messier when sped up. But you understand the idea, at least. A comet is a pretty good disc to practice this with. I would, however, warn you that it really isn't such a "true stable" disc as some people say it is. Maybe they are more or less when brand-spanking-first-throw-ever new, but they are slightly understable at high speeds, so a slight hyzer release will be necessary to throw a comet 300 ft straight. If you're doing anything really badly, the comet should let you know.

Just focus on maintaining a nice wrist orientation all the way through. Start throwing nice and smooth and soft, and gradually, GRADUALLY, increase the power. It'll take practice, but you'll get there in no time.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby JR » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:04 am

Comet is a microscope showing up problems immediately although it ain't that sensitive to nose up throwing. It is great for diagnosing plane breaking, wrist rolls and strong arming. Another way to correct OAT might work for some. If you can get a satin or silk piece that is at least twice as large as a Comet preferably more you can attach it to a pole and start waving it. In calm winds mind you or the wind will mask the OAT you get. If you manage to move the sheet and pole with a throwing motion so that the sheet won't flap you have no OAT. If you manage to do this with the right pec acceleration at full power from then on you are well on your way. This may not remove OAT from your throws because unclean releases can also cause OAT. But if you can wave the flag cleanly and get OAT it's a good bet that your grip needs adjusting so the flag waving drill is good at least for diagnosing the existence of that problem. Some discs are harder to release cleanly than others. Beads and sharp bottoms drag more easily along the fingers so that may create OAT. That is why some, like me, have trouble with Rocs, Teebirds and to a lesser extent Wizards. The staples of DGR recommendations for years because they fly fine when you get a good clean throw out of them. Or correct for the OAT of unclean releases with proper amount of initial hyzer. I think smaller hands are more at risk of getting drag from the discs that have challenging shapes.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby aDave » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:34 am

Nice idea with the flag! Not to hijack this but it's good to see that my ideas of what I'm doing "right" are seemingly correct.
It gives me hope for success now that I'm attacking the Nose Up Demon that my beloved Comet is seemingly immune to.
caleb91, fanter, you can go along way reading the info on this site, but I bet you know that already.
:)
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby jubuttib » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:41 pm

Good info. To summarize a bit: The point of the Comet is that it's sensitive to OAT. You can't force it, you have to ask it nicely. If you can get it to 300' without much hyzer, you're on the right track. It is however unlikely to help you with nose up problems.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby JHern » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:10 am

jubuttib wrote:Good info. To summarize a bit: The point of the Comet is that it's sensitive to OAT. You can't force it, you have to ask it nicely. If you can get it to 300' without much hyzer, you're on the right track. It is however unlikely to help you with nose up problems.


And to add more to this...

1) The problem in flight is that OAT causes the disc to wobble, which makes it fly very understable. Some discs can be given an initial wobble, and that will bleed off/dissipate in a couple seconds of flight. Some experienced players can use this and control the amount of OAT they put on the throw to get the desired flight, which works better for some discs and worse for others. The Comet seems to have a very slow dissipation of wobble, in addition to being made super-under-stable by the wobble itself. You simply can't throw it far with any significant wobble, it doesn't fly properly.

2) Using a Comet or other "OAT microscope" disc might increase your nose up problems if you're not careful, because putting the nose up causes any disc to fly relatively more over-stable in flight. Thus one might add nose up, get a straighter flight even though there is still a lot of OAT, and decide that whatever throwing motion that caused that flight was good, when in fact they just haven't gone all the way in getting rid of OAT and the nose-up just masks the fact. This can end up as a positive reinforcement of bad habits, since getting the nose down alone can add of order 100' of distance when turning over drivers on distance lines. With nose up, you'll never realize the full potential of those lines.
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Re: Correcting OAT? Help

Postby Sean40474 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:11 pm

What disc would you suggest that will help with nose up problems while working with the Comet to fix OAT issues? I believe that I may be guilty of nose up issues a little lately. I've been using the Comet since last year trying to fix my OAT issues, plus the disc is just a BAMF.
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