Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

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Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Smigles » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:39 am

Ok, another noob question.

When i started a year ago, i heared of this theory that you should try to do the same shot all the time and let your disc do the work for you. I experimented with that a little bit and filled my bag with many different drivers from totaly overstable to so beat up that you couldnt keep it hyzer to save your life.

But i get more and more scared of the understable discs. I have more and more models that turn & burn on me, and with every step in power i gain, i lose some discs to turn & burn. It got so far that i hardly throw my comet and my valkyrie any more because i am scared of them. If i overdo it, it will turn and burn. If i underdo it, it wont fade right as much as i want it to. This leaves me with a dilemma, specialy with left-to-right holes with a dogleg on the right an OB on the left.

I have more trust in my more stable discs. Yes, i need to throw them anhyzer, and yes they sometimes fade back left a bit at the end. But i still prefer it that way, i have a feeling of more control, and i have never had a turn & burn. So nowadays, i throw all my midrange stuff with my buzzz, and where i used to throw a valkyrie i now throw a avenger or a destroyer with anhyzer. It got so far that i am thinking about kicking all understable discs out of my bag and just carry stable and overstable discs.

The question, you ask ? I would like to know how you guys solved this issue :)
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:10 pm

A lot of us here will disagree with the throw the disc that makes the shot. If you learn to make every disc make every shot (even hyzer your super beat disc mentioned, its very possible) you will become a more rounded player. There is a good chance if you are turning and burning more discs you are developing the dreaded oat. (off axis torque). Even guys with 500' of power should be able to throw a Valk without it burning on them. Keep working the understable discs, you will be able to make them work for you. I will post a link to a couple of my favorite field work drills to keep working.
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Smigles » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:21 pm

I keep reading about the OAT ^^ I am sure it is discussed at lengh in the "maxing out at 300" thread, and probably in some other places too, but my search skills are lacking ^^ Could you please link to a post or two where this is explained ?

The prob with my valk is not only that it is a valk ( which isnt a prob by itself ) but also that it is realy realy beat up by now ^^ I think there is a degree of being beaten up where it no longer makes sence to try and keep that disc on y hyzer line, is that right ?
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:22 pm

http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595

This is the line shaping drill. Yes, I can throw a Knife hyzer and sweeping hyzer with 4/10 thrashed XL, and I can also throw an Anhyzer all the way to the ground with a new max weight Z Pred.

Do a little searching and there is a ton of information about form and off axis torque in particular. There are plenty somewhat successful players who throw a Z avenger for "understable" and throw using OAT to get similar effects, but they are missing out on a lot of great discs that fly the lines better, because their form is not great.
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:30 pm

Smigles wrote: I think there is a degree of being beaten up where it no longer makes sence to try and keep that disc on y hyzer line, is that right ?


Yes, there is no reason to take a thrashed DX Orc (one of the most understable discs possible, that mold stinks in baseline plastic), but being able to control the nose angle, hyzer angle and power to be able to make it hyzer its whole flight will teach you so much more about flight, and make you capable of throwing different lines that are difficult to learn.
Think of throwing that shot more a teaching tool than a shot you would use on a course.


here are links to some threads on OAT particularly. Putter/Less stable mid rounds are a great way to work out form flaws, but can make it harder to transition to very fast drivers because the slower discs are less nose angle sensitive.
http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3823&hilit=+off+axis+torque+
http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=732&hilit=+off+axis+torque+
http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1298&hilit=+off+axis+torque+

and a little conversation about putter only rounds.
http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20001
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:37 pm

You want a simplified regiment to follow? I have recommended for newer players I have help instructed who didn't want to do field work (although mixing field work in between rounds is always good).

Spend 3-5 rounds with just a couple putters. (Aviar P&A, Magnet or something neutral is a good place to start)
Spend 3-5 rounds with the putters and mids.
Once you are able to throw those well enough, move up to slower drivers (cheetah, cyclone gazelle teebird, xl, tl)
Move up to valks ect.

It all depends on how much time/energy you want to spend on learning.
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Smigles » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:28 pm

Thanks alot for all these links :)

Speaking of practice : I am a fanatic, i practiced in summer every day after work ( = field work, real practice, not playing rounds. 20 min putting practice, 50 drives to not overdo it, then maybe play 9 holes for fun, repeat ). At this time of the year it is allready dark when i get off work, so i only have weekends and days i take off just so i can get out on the field. If i dont throw for a week, i get nervous. I usualy practice till it gets dark. We have a 500 feet straight flat field for driving practice and 5 baskets around it for putting practice.

I have seen enormous improvement in this year ( i started a year ago ), i hope i can keep it up :) I dont have a pdga license, but judging from people that i played with in tournaments i would say that i improved from a 700 to a 930 - 950 rating this year. Drives improved from 200 to 430 feet ( max D. "golf drives" are around 350-400 feet ). Putting confidence zone increased from non existant to 15-18 feet.

I remember that the comet got on my nerve and yes, i tried to throw it hard without it flipping. I managed to do so with crazy crazy hyzers. I will do so some more :)




Why i made this thread : I realised that there is always some degree of playing with the release angle involved. At first i didnt want to accept that and tried discs left and right that i can release with my natural hyzer angle ( coming from ultimate, i threw everything hyzer ) and that will do the shot for me. That was ok for a little while, but as i said, the discs started turning and burnign on me. I also realised that this must be a very limited approach, and i want to improve. I also want to break 500 feet some day and i figure that improving my technique is a good way there.

I dont like my understable discs any more. I feel insecure enugh when i have to give anhyzer on a disc. The room of error betweeen it turning&burning, it landing perfectly flat as i want it and it doing the S and fading left at the end is quite small. The room of error gets even bigger when you throw hyzer and make the disc flip and THEN try to hit the perfect angle for these 3 possibilities. ( On a sidenote, i dont have much problems when the disc shouldnt land flat. I can throw hyzers and rollers that keep their line till they land. It is realy mostly about the touch s-shot or anhyzer shot where the disc should flatten out in the air and land flat at the end ).
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby JR » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:35 pm

There are discs with LEDs inbuilt and external LEDs that can be taped onto the discs sold at many disc golf stores. Glow discs from Gateway do work if you leave them next to a lamp for 15 minutes and set them side by side to load each other. If you use a lamp it will extend the usefulness. Some have built lamps inside their bags to charge the discs while playing.

Working the discs means you carry the tools necessary to throw on every hole in the world. Without extra weight because the tools are in you head.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby Thatdirtykid » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:20 am

Smigles wrote: We have a 500 feet straight flat field for driving practice and 5 baskets around it for putting practice.


That is a nice sounding practice field. I am finally getting a basket (again, i sold mine when I took a disc hiatus) and will have 1 on my lawn (I can throw into my practice field from my front walk). I thought that was going to be ideal :roll:


Smigles wrote: I also want to break 500 feet some day and i figure that improving my technique is the only way there.

Fixed that for you. . .
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Re: Working the discs vs. letting the discs do the work

Postby garublador » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:48 am

Smigles wrote:that i can release with my natural hyzer angle ( coming from ultimate, i threw everything hyzer ) and that will do the shot for me.
You're a step ahead if you're already throwing hyzers for most shots. Getting people to try throwing hyzers rather than flat shots for everything is usually a hard sell.

The hammer pound drill, building your throw from the hit back and always being able to throw putters and mids on full drives is really all you need to learn to improve. Get all of your discs to hold all sorts of lines and you'll have line shaping figured out. Getting those jumps to half and full hitting is "just" a matter of experimenting until you get the right "feel" and then replicating it. I am making it sound a lot easier than it really is (the implementation is tough), but conceptually it's all quite simple.
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