Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby emiller3 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:52 am

Assuming you're push putting (because why would anyone do anything else? :)), shorten and quicken your putting motion, generate your power from the shoulder/upper arm. Keep your shoulders locked in the same position throughout the putt (don't push forward with your right shoulder when you putt.) Even better, keep them square.

If all that's good, you can focus on getting clean finger spring and release. Make sure your fingers are springing the disc forward in a linear motion (this is always such an unnatural feeling for me.) You can focus on your wrist and what not, but in my experience when you quicken your motion, the wrist will take care of itself. I do sometimes actively relax my wrist right before I putt.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby garublador » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:35 am

When I miss to the right it's almost always because I released too late. Others have given more detailed reasons about why that's bad, but for me just thinking about releasing earlier tends to fix most of that stuff.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Blake_T » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:32 pm

the fastest fix that will probably work for this is to move your release point about 1' closer to your body than it was.

the short arm putt was developed/discovered in order to eliminate/minimize misses to the right.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Apothecary » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:09 am

kick the toe of your front foot a couple degrees to the left.

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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby JHern » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:12 pm

I've made a kind of breakthrough since my last post in this thread, just experimenting with different things while practicing putting. I've begun experimenting with Nikko's stance and putting style. By squaring my whole body with the basket (toes, feet, legs, torso, shoulders, head, all facing basket) there should in principle be less left-right error/play since my body is essentially aimed already at the basket. This works quite well, after a good long practice putting session in the 15'-20' range, I'm hitting pretty much everything. Those are, of course, the "must make" putts.

On longer putts in the 25'-35' range the putting style changes just slightly because I need to get a bit more on the disc to get it on a straight line to the basket. Like Nikko I reach back just a little further between the legs and release it with some hyzer. I found that when I go for more snappy feeling releases I was beginning to pull to the right. This wasn't a fluke of my release or anything, it is just the natural direction my body generates more power coming from that position. So instead of fighting it, I'm running with it. For putts 25'+ I line up with my right foot just slightly in front of my left foot (it is a small amount, so even if my left foot were behind the marker it would still work). I can generate plenty of speed on the disc, and it feels just natural and right. In my practice rounds so far I've gotten up to about 50% from 30', which is pretty damn good for me. But then I noticed that I could still square up my feet and my body, and just move my right shoulder forward a bit more in the putting motion, and I get the same kind of positive adjustment. I will have to experiment some more, but perhaps this is just the kind of tinkering around I needed to do long ago to get my putting form working again.

I've also had a breakthrough in the confidence category. I noticed that for a while I had low confidence with my putts and wasn't having nearly as much fun holing out as I ought. So I started to loosen up a bit, go out determined to have fun, and make fun shots, and fun putts, etc., and all of a sudden my confidence was back and I was hitting many more putts than I had been previously. It is an attitude thing. So at least for me, a focus on fun builds confidence.

All this is important for my game because so many baskets around here are on the edges of hills or cliffs, and the ground is hard and the discs that miss are so often rolling away. This really gets into your head. But if you can nail the putt, you don't have to worry about roll-aways.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Jesse B 707 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:36 pm

start your swing further to your right while still releasing in the same place if that makes sense, i have this pop up now and again and its always a problem with where i start my stroke as opposed to how/where i stand and release


edit: also what Blake and Garu said
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby rusch_bag » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:38 pm

Does anyone have a link to the thread where blake really talks about putting?
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Blake_T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:54 pm

look for phrases like "there's only 4 ways to miss a putt" and you'll probably find it somewhere. competent putting has become as natural as breathing for me. i don't go pure lights out without at least some practice but it shouldn't take much for someone to be able to can 85% from 20', 75% from 25', etc. if you search for apex putting you'll find the most i've written about putting on the forum including some 1337 drawings.

while i was able to develop/tweak the short arm technique in 1 summer (and i threw 100,000+ putts that summer), i'm starting to see with my students that it really takes most of them more like 18 months to really come around strong. basically, across 18 months they go from being a worse putter than me to being a better putter than me (in terms of physical execution, head game might be a diff story).

regardless of it, i still find a lot of advice i don't condone given out about putting. people make it too complicated. one thing that the hammer drills brought out was a return of my putting power... forgot that i used to initiate the inertia of the disc by rolling it forward in my palm...
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby JHern » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:21 pm

Blake_T wrote:regardless of it, i still find a lot of advice i don't condone given out about putting. people make it too complicated. one thing that the hammer drills brought out was a return of my putting power... forgot that i used to initiate the inertia of the disc by rolling it forward in my palm...


Just some random thoughts...I always go back and forth between not thinking enough about it to over-thinking it. But I think this is part of the process, just like anything else. I'm beginning to find that I need to have a more disciplined view of the game and strategy in general to score better, and putting is a huge part of that. It also helps that I moved to a new home course where I can't score under par with a crappy putting game (carding a few under par in most layouts is a 1000-rated round).

The most basic way to describe a good putt is: just throw the disc into the meat of the chains so that it drops into the basket. That's the most simple and basic level one can describe putting. And indeed, we probably have to embrace that simple primal urge and feeling of just sticking it in the chains, which is needed before one can ascend to a higher level of skill. I think this is the part of the putting game that is highly dependent upon confidence. If you think about missing, then you've lost the primal urge. If you think about your score for the round while preparing to make a putt, then you've lost the primal urge.

But if I want to putt well over and over again, and with great consistency, I need to find a comfortable throwing form that is repeatable and which feels most natural for my body to execute. I don't think it should require physical effort or strain to throw a putt, it should be an easy-going feeling, everything should fit like a glove. Finding this requires a great deal of experimentation, and I suppose that I'm still in this experimental stage of my game, but getting very close to the zone. I think finding one's natural putting style and rhythm then feeds back into increased confidence, thus blending with the basic primal urge to stick it in the chains.

All this is probably pretty obvious rambling. Anyways, the drills and ideas suggested by Blake and Mark Ellis and others are working, though I'm surprised at how long it takes for some of the lessons to sink in. Do I just have a thick skull, or what?
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Blake_T » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:23 pm

JH,

i've talked to you before about the magic release.
being a great putter takes the magic release and tons of reps.
being a good putter needs either the magic release OR tons of reps.

great vs. good vs. average vs. poor... the mental disadvantage you put yourself at by not being at the top level is pretty severe. even if you know you are a good putter, knowing you aren't a great putter prevents you from removing all pressure from what should be routine putts.

what people tend to jump past is that most putt tweaking is meant to "increase the make percentage assuming you have the magic release." this is where things like apex putting come into play.

each chronic problem of putting only has like 3-5 probably causes, which means there's really only 3-5 probable solutions, each one is contingent upon the magic release or an azz-ton of reps.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby SirRaph » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 am

I do the same thing from time to time. Slow down. Local Pro Masters player told me that. Best advice I ever got on my putting stroke.

Much like every other part of the game, (ie driving, approaches, etc.) jerking the disc around isn't going to make it go further. Smooth and controlled. Even if I underpower it and miss short, at least I haven't jerked it to the side and overthrown the basket for a downhill come-backer or something.

On the mental side of the game, I just try to look about one chain link. Stare that sucker down until my eyes blur. I don't think about my stroke. I just focus on that link, and don't take my eyes off of it until the disc hits the target. 90% of the time I miss a putt, I realize I took my eyes off the target.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Apothecary » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:28 am

JHern wrote:For putts 25'+ I line up with my right foot just slightly in front of my left foot (it is a small amount, so even if my left foot were behind the marker it would still work).


technically, the latter wouldnt be a legal putt. your closest foot to the pin must be behind the mark. watch yourself.;)
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:46 am

I do the same thing from time to time. Slow down. Local Pro Masters player told me that. Best advice I ever got on my putting stroke.



On the mental side of the game, I just try to look about one chain link. Stare that sucker down until my eyes blur. I don't think about my stroke. I just focus on that link, and don't take my eyes off of it until the disc hits the target. 90% of the time I miss a putt, I realize I took my eyes off the target.


these both fall into a particular philosophy, neither of which i really condone. it works for some personality types, but not for others.

slowing down gives you more time to enter your head and muck things up. i've adopted the mentality of "the 2nd disc you picked up off the ground and threw at the basket after you missed your putt always goes in." a pure throw, pure reaction and instinct. step up and fire. if you've had the practice, have a rock solid release, and have gauged your distance/wind/risk correctly, the putt should go in. if you putt this style, rapid fire practice putts are actually beneficial.

the single link is also a philosophy. i prefer apex putting because it gives me a huge target, especially on longer putts. having a box in the air that's like 18" wide and 12" tall to hit removes the need for such intense focus and is a lot more forgiving.

overall, if you have a semblance of a good release, it's really the reps that count the most. 20,000+ with a solid release and everything should be nearly automatic.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby jubuttib » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:46 pm

I'm not certain, but he might have meant slow down the putting stroke itself. Not thinking about the putt too much is definitely a good thing if you've practiced your form to automation level, but trying to rush through the motions will usually end up in an f'd up putt.
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Re: Pulling putts to the right. Every.Single.Time.

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 pm

i even prefer a quick stroke to a slow one. if you watch pro darts players and some of the best pure shooters in the NBA as well as quarterbacks that have a lightning quick release (phillip rivers, jeff george, dan marino, etc.) that's sort of what i'm talking about.

if you have the right types of checkpoints in your motion keeping it quick and compact will be easier to repeat than a longer, slower stroke... more things can vary from throw to throw when things get slower.
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