Flipping a Roc and a Cyclone?

[JHern]

If you guys go and read the ESP Cyclone thread, you'll find that we've discovered an anomaly in the newer ESP Cyclones. In particular, the newest runs contain some very domey Cyclones, and these fly completely differently than the earlier flatter runs of the ESP Cyclone. I have both kinds in my personal stock right now, and I'm still puzzling over how it works.

In summary, here is how it works:
-The new domey ESP Cyclone, flies like a long Comet. Extremely sensitive to OAT (wobble stays on the disc for many seconds after release), more difficult to control at high speeds, and very little LSS (almost no fade). It has excellent glide, and will fly straight a very long ways if you can get it on a clean wobble-free line with plenty o' spin.
-The older flat top ESP Cyclone, flies like a long Gazelle. Not sensitive to OAT (wobble bleeds off a second after release), very controllable even for sloppy releases, and strong LSS (strong fade). This disc will do almost everything (flex shots, hyzer flips, long anhyzers, etc.), it is a spectacular fairway driver (the best I ever threw).

Don't tell me that this isn't the way discs usually behave, I'm well aware of that, and so is everyone else, so don't waste our time exclaiming about it any more (go to the Cyclone thread instead if you need to get that out of your system). This Cyclone dichotomy is anomalous, and we don't understand why. Both kinds have exactly the same bottom, same tooling, same nose, same everything. But the top is completely different. Discraft claims that the difference is because the flat ones were smashed down when they were shipped, but I think this is nonsense because they all used to be flat (the domey ones only just recently appeared) and the width of the outer slope on the rim is also very different from the flat runs which suggests a completely different top mold piece was used. I suspect they were trying to get more stability and glide by trying a domier top, but screwed up and instead made a long Comet (OK, so they did get a lot of glide).

Anyways Peot, it sounds like you may have a long-Comet-esque domey ESP Cyclone. I can't speak for the Roc, since I don't throw them and there are as many variations in Roc runs as there are stars in the sky.

[JR]

Have you thrown TP Cyclones? Mine flip easily so i think i need to test them without squeezing so hard with the index finger tip. They have a moderate fade not straight not that much fade either something in between. I think somewhere in the middle of Champion Leopard and a new DX Gazelle. I'm not so keen on trying out an OOP disc in the snow so that'll have to wait. Just loaded up Z Comet, Z Storm, Fuse, FR Star Mako, Spike and Pure to the bag for lesser index finger tip squeeze test.

[JHern]

I've never thrown a TP Cyclone. Older used OOP discs like that usually either go into a personal stash for safekeeping and don't get thrown much, or if they get thrown much then they get beat up pretty quickly (California courses are often hard on plastic). People on the board say that you can find them in other parts of the country pretty easy.

[JR]

More successes in 3 MPH rear wind 25F with less index finger tip pressure into the rim. It's cold and low traction here now that the tartan i cleared had new snow on it. Comet to 240' with two-three degree hyzer flipped to flat. Some putters farther like Ion what? :-/ DX Roc 180 no troubles 250' released flat not flipping. I've yet to see what my Kite did but it was way longer than Storm which outdistanced Mako. I guess 370' on an s-curve with an S 175 TD.

I've lost a lot of D compared to summer so i can't tell what happens to flipping at full power soon. The good thing is that approaches are gonna be better and many more tested discs won't flip as much or at all when they used to. Grip can make a lot of difference. But i didn't flip many discs during the summer including Rocs at reduced distance.

[Sean40474]

I used to flip my Rocs going right around the 275ft mark, but it was all due to poor form. I never had a problem flipping Cyclones though when I used it as my primary driver. The Roc always felt odd to me (I'm usually a Buzzz thrower), but life has been better since I switched to a three finger grip vs all four.

I'm the same way with the Buzzz and I'm not a huge fan of the large bead discs out there. For some reason I can get along with my Star and DX ADs for driving, but I have issues with the Stalker and the Roc. Maybe it is psychosomatic and I just need more practice and/or changing my grip. Either way, I've always come back to the Buzzz as I like the feel of it in my hand (plus I like the FLX).