Finding the hit, then building the throw

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Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Beetard » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:57 pm

I think towel snapping practice is starting to show me about the place my hand should be relative to my body at the hit.

...But it is more difficult with a disc. I can't find the feeling of the disc being heavy or the disc snapping out on a forward trajectory.

It is also much harder to aim it than I would the tip of a towel.

Is it worth it to practice away with towel drills, will the way they work actually carry over to throwing discs?
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby CatPredator » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:06 pm

The towel drill just helps you find your release point or "the hit" and to some extent teaches you to accelerate through the wrist snap. It's usefulness ends there.

After that you need to get a disc in your hand and practice. I suggest a putter or midrange to start with. They force you to learn how to rip off your index finger and are unforgiving to OAT.

Start with slow shots. You don't have to throw hard to find the hit. You just have to accelerate at the right time. Your focus should just be on feeling what a good snap is like. You can tell if you are hitting it on 100 foot shots when your arm hardly moves but the disc comes zipping out on a laser line from your wrist extension.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby masterbeato » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:50 pm

the only way to feel the weight of a disc, is to feel the weight of a disc. the towel drill may show you wrist action, and timing, but won't show you how to leverage a disc.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Beetard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:13 pm

I feel like I am getting closer to understanding. Every single power generating mechanism needs to fire as the disc is pivoting.

I've been studying the top view Avery Jenkins slow motion video for a while now. The very beginning of facing up is the final moment of the disc being in the thrower's hand.

For example, the hip turn is completed way early in the throw and its power is saved up until the hit. At this moment, the front or back of the plant foot is lifted and the plant foot begins to turn, letting other things turn and adding a little bit of exit speed.

But that is building the throw stuff I don't need to concern myself with yet. What I did take away from the Avery video that is relevant to me is that the hit is when the arm is almost straight and about 40 degrees short of the line. This is the position where wrist extension and disc pivot need to happen. Wrist extension and disc pivot happen way earlier than I had thought.

When I used to practice, I was trying to get the disc to rip like 45 degrees past where I wanted to throw it and be faced up before it came out. Really it's no wonder my toss was so crappy.

I know now what I must do is throw from just short of the proper hit position learn how to grip the disc so that it can actually pivot and sling around my finger.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Star Shark » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:12 pm

I found that feeling the hit is alot easier with a midrange, possibly due to the diameter of the disc. Then you just have to transfer that timing over to your driver throw.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Dookville » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:41 am

Star Shark wrote:I found that feeling the hit is alot easier with a midrange, possibly due to the diameter of the disc. Then you just have to transfer that timing over to your driver throw.

I agree, i was able to feel the snap at the hit using mids before I was ever able to feel it with wider rim drivers. Even with the wider rim drivers I used lighter weights at first. I was also using understable drivers; when the snap started coming at the hit I had to get some overstable discs in the bag right away to control the turn. I have a few over stable stable discs in my bag now in 168-172g range and a Beast 174g that I can manage. Start with a light mid and huck em til you get it done everytime and then move up.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby garublador » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:13 am

Star Shark wrote:I found that feeling the hit is alot easier with a midrange, possibly due to the diameter of the disc. Then you just have to transfer that timing over to your driver throw.
I find this to be true as well. It's way easier with a mid than even a speed 9 disc. I thought it was because of the narrower rim, and that's probably part of it, but I also found it easier with a mid than a putter. I think the wide rim might have something to do with it as well. My guess is the larger moment makes getting the feel of "leveraging" the disc easier.

Has anyone tried the hammer pound drills with an Epic? That might be an interesting way to see if uneven weight distribution would make getting the feel for leveraging the disc easier.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby JR » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:47 am

A Teebird at speed 7 is even thinner rimmed than speed 9 drivers but some of the faster discs are also thinner in height so they grip almost equally for me. Mids tend to be flat and you can squeeze harder thumb to index finger and vice versa thanks to the leverage. Even with short fingers like mine. So yes thin mids are the easiest discs to use for finding the hit. Leverage is another factor but it may be surprising. Weight distribution makes things quite surprising according to a test mafa did. Wizards and Ultra-Stars are surprising compared to drivers in weight distribution being so heavily tilted to the outside edge.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Dookville » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:58 am

garublador wrote:
Star Shark wrote:I found that feeling the hit is alot easier with a midrange, possibly due to the diameter of the disc. Then you just have to transfer that timing over to your driver throw.
I find this to be true as well. It's way easier with a mid than even a speed 9 disc. I thought it was because of the narrower rim, and that's probably part of it, but I also found it easier with a mid than a putter. I think the wide rim might have something to do with it as well. My guess is the larger moment makes getting the feel of "leveraging" the disc easier.

Has anyone tried the hammer pound drills with an Epic? That might be an interesting way to see if uneven weight distribution would make getting the feel for leveraging the disc easier.

I noticed with wider rimmed discs that my release was early and everything started left (RHBH) and continued left. My grip pressure was less at at the more open position needed to hold the wide rim. I started using a lighter disc and that helped until my grip strengthened, then I gradually increased the weight of the disc.

The drivers and mids had a similar feel in the hand, just the width of the rim felt different, the putt/approach discs had such a different feel versus the wider rims that they didn't equate. I sought help early on for throwing technique from a local more experienced player and I got the usual; "go learn to throw the Roc 300' and then come talk to me". I watched some videos online from Master B, Mark Ellis, and Dave D, there was enough instruction about everything from putting to driving that that coupled with a few articles on DG REview about feel and snap at the hit that I was able to train in the right direction until I started feeling it and repeating it.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby CJ1998 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:05 pm

I'll take a shot in the dark at it.

The key to feeling the weight of the disc is to relax the grip early in the throwing motion. If you're too tense, you'll never feel it. This idea will probably result in some early release but I think It's worth a try in the practice field.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby dgdave » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:31 pm

I found a very storng hit by delaying everything as long as possible. Star your pull a split second later, start your turn a split second later, etc. When ever I feel it REALLY strong, the whole motion starting from the X Step seems in slow mo and I see the disc at full back extension very clearly.

Here is a vid of one of my best feeling throws ever. I was lucky enough to get it on film. This was a fresh P PD about 460-475ft just ever so slightly up hill. This is from the period of my longest, most powerful, most controlled drives of my life. I was getting close to hitting 500ft pretty consistanly for about 3 months.

http://img190.imageshack.us/i/1013915.mp4/

You can see how its- slow, slow, slow, slow, BOOM!, controled follow through.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby Beetard » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:56 pm

The ice age finally ended and I got out in a field. I made good progress because I changed my concept of grip.

What I used do was just lock all of my fingers onto the rim and pull the disc tight against my palm. This allows no "levering of the disc"

Now I'm trying to grip it like it's an aerobie ring; like there is no rim -Just trying to hold the flight plate between my index and thumb. The points that touch if I were to hold a pencil like I was going to write with it, that is the workhorse of this grip- the pad of the thumb and the pad of the index right near the nail. This grip feels really uncomfortable and weak, but it lets the disc move in my hand the way I think it is supposed to.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby MrScoopa » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:09 am

Sounds like you found it.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby josser » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:00 pm

dgdave wrote:I found a very storng hit by delaying everything as long as possible. Star your pull a split second later, start your turn a split second later, etc. When ever I feel it REALLY strong, the whole motion starting from the X Step seems in slow mo and I see the disc at full back extension very clearly.

Here is a vid of one of my best feeling throws ever. I was lucky enough to get it on film. This was a fresh P PD about 460-475ft just ever so slightly up hill. This is from the period of my longest, most powerful, most controlled drives of my life. I was getting close to hitting 500ft pretty consistanly for about 3 months.

http://img190.imageshack.us/i/1013915.mp4/

You can see how its- slow, slow, slow, slow, BOOM!, controled follow through.


Bah. That looks far too effortless.
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Re: Finding the hit, then building the throw

Postby dgdave » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:03 pm

That's when you're doing it right! :)
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