i'm sort of here sort of...

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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby JR » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:18 am

Blake_T wrote:it's a flow. you have too much crap swirling around. timing trumps EVERYTHING. snipped


Feldy told in his clinic that the final half inch of the throw is: "Huge". Think of your full speed drive and you'll get how short the timing window is. It needs to be more unconscious automation than conscious commanding of the arm. The trick is how to get the idea of the right timing, then performing it and next drilling to get it to be automatic. A tall order indeed. More than i have managed to.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Itchy » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:09 pm

Blake_T wrote:...and be able to know when understable is bad/low percentage.

Thank you, sir.

I guess then, my next question would be when is an understabe disc going to be a low percentage throw? Would a cross wind be an example? A sidearm with a stable disc would fight flipping better than an understable disc thrown BH?
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Whiz » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:06 pm

A low percentage shot is one which you will only be able to pull off less then maybe %60 of the time (random percentage pulled out of the air). With an understable disc low percentage shots will depend on your skill level but examples of generally hard to pull off shots would be:

Throwing a very understable disc on a hyzer with the intent to have it flip all the way over and still hyzer out at the end, especially if you try this in the wind. This would be an example of a four directional shot...disc starts left on the hyzer, goes straight as it flips, right after flipping and left again when it hyzers out.

Throwing an understable disc on a hyzer where you do not want the disc to flip...into a headwind...which will be likely to flip the disc. Extra points if you are trying to do this shot slightly uphill into a headwind...if the nose is slightly up you will hyzer way, way off the intended line.

Trying to throw an understable disc near your max distance. Usually you will have to hit the line exactly right for a hyzerflip max distance shot and any wind or imperfection in the throw can have you hyzer out early or turn your shot into a roller.

For contrast...a high percentage shot might be...

Throw a stable disc with no wind on a hyzer. If you throw the disc slightly more or less hyzer the shot will be affected very little and you will likely not suffer or lose strokes.

Throwing an understable disc with a tailwind at your back. The tailwind will prevent the disc from flipping as much as it normally would and it is usually possible to throw very long shots like this as long as you don't throw the disc with too much hyzer.

Also, the percentage of the shot will be lowered (a harder shot to make) if these factors are present:
Wind
Elevation
Rain
OB
Wet Discs
Standstill shot or abbreviated runup
Tight gap to shoot for/through
Rough that is extremely penalizing
Mandatory to make

You should weigh each shot you take based upon the difficulty of the shot relative to your skill level and whether you are more likely to gain or lose a stroke. Usually if there is a chance of losing multiple strokes (mando, OB, terrible rough) most amateur players should make the safe shot that is very unlikely to lose them strokes. At the advanced level (even high advanced) and below most tournaments are determined by the least amount of bogies rather than the highest amount of birdies.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Whiz » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Also, I do not take my own advice at the end of that post as often as I should and thus I am not a Pro, as of yet, myself. Hopefully you can separate the advice from the sub-990 rated poster ;-)
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Whiz » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:16 pm

It seems like I am having some results on the ruler/dowel rod thing by tightening my grip as my forearm is pointing roughly 90 degrees left of the target and extending my wrist/thumb to point between 45 and 60 degrees closer to the target than the forearm. I have not tried throwing the ruler yet. Might have to wait until the wife is out of the house for that :roll: . It seems like doing this I can get the "pft" sound rather than a "whoosh." I am going to continue doing it and see what happens.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Itchy » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:24 pm

Thanks Blake and Whiz... those are kind of the scenarios I've been practicing in my field work rather than throwing up the field and then back down the field (what I used to do).

Good info to know and skills to work on.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Blake_T » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:59 pm

low percentage has three (or more) potential meanings.

1. a shot with a low chance of physical execution.
2. a shot that difficult to execute flight-wise. this is usually due to your choice of line.
3. a shot with an unpredictable/squirrely behavior. this is usually due to your choice of disc.

if you need a shot that turns to the right... but not too far to the right, you can try to eliminate 2 and 3 by either a) throwing a stable to slightly understable disc sidearm hyzer or b) throwing a stable to overstable disc anhyzer.

if you can't do either a or b well, then you have to focus on #1.

It seems like I am having some results on the ruler/dowel rod thing by tightening my grip as my forearm is pointing roughly 90 degrees left of the target and extending my wrist/thumb to point between 45 and 60 degrees closer to the target than the forearm. I have not tried throwing the ruler yet. Might have to wait until the wife is out of the house for that :roll: . It seems like doing this I can get the "pft" sound rather than a "whoosh." I am going to continue doing it and see what happens.


focus more on making the pfft AFTER your hand passes the right edge of the body. it sounds like yours is happening way too early. the "ideal" position you will find at the end of the pfft is probably going to be forearm pointed like 30-40 degrees left o the target and the end of the rod pointed at the target. the fact that you have figured out that your wrist must break backwards in order to get the pfft means you are more than halfway there.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Whiz » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:04 pm

Uh, I don't think I have figured that part out...lol. Must be doing it unconsciously?
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby josser » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:39 pm

So I went out and bought 4' of 1/2" dowel rod and brought it home. I was about to chop it up when I noticed that a drum stick is basically the same size (but longer than the suggested 12"). So I worked on these drills with a drumstick. Here are some of my discoveries...

1. I have a projectile catcher in the garage so I ended up "throwing" the drumstick instead of doing the "hold and pfft" drill. In hindsight I should also have tried the holding onto it drill.

2. I needed to keep a nice tight to my body pull line with the drumstick (just like a disc) or else my aim would be off to the left (LHBH). I found it a lot easier with the drumstick to pay attention to how tight to my body the pull line was.

3. I was basically trying to do the hammer pound with the drumstick and I needed to give a little skateboard kick to help me face up to the target to have good accuracy. It also helped the motion feel a lot smoother instead of herky jerky when I didn't do the kick.

4. I didn't really start feeling the weight of the stick until I started to use a longer reach back. I think part of this was just that it helped keep the pull line tight to my body.

5. I also found that it pulled left (LHBH) when I had acceleration that was too early.

6. One thing I was really happy to see was that with the same speed/strength motion but different grip strengths that they were still on target, which is something that I had known was supposed to happen with a good disc throw, but have never actually experienced.
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:50 am

I should also have tried the holding onto it drill.


work on this until you have reached the highest pitch "pfft" you can get to and then repeat your throwing drills while throwing them in the way that got you the highest pitch pffft.

3. I was basically trying to do the hammer pound with the drumstick and I needed to give a little skateboard kick to help me face up to the target to have good accuracy. It also helped the motion feel a lot smoother instead of herky jerky when I didn't do the kick.


the timing isn't there yet. footwork shouldn't have to dictate what you do with your arm. you also shouldn't be faced up until the point the stick leaves your hand (or reaches maximum extension if you are holding onto it).
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Re: i'm sort of here sort of...

Postby Iman522 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:33 pm

So in a good and proper power grip, is the index knuckle on top of the rim of the disc? If so, how important is it? The reason I ask is because I have incredibly short fingers and for some reason I thought it had to be on top. I have had a horribly weak grip and I can't figure out what is wrong. Tonight though I was just holding a disc and trying to get a good grip and it felt so much stronger if the knuckle was just kinda on the side of the disc. (I haven't had the opportunity to throw with it though due to the freezing cold) I did find a topic with blake saying he had never met anyone who couldn't make a proper power grip and also that most the time people had the disc oriented wrong and so I guess I am wondering if maybe that was the wrong orientation I had?

I searched and searched and reread the grip it and rip it article but I couldn't find anything about the knuckle. I didn't really want to create a whole new topic so I figured I would ask just here.
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