What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

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What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby josser » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:55 pm

There are posts pretty often here from folks who struggle with shots in the 50-150' range. Ultimate players kill at these shots!

I know there are lots of former/current Ultimate platers on here and tons of tutorial videos kicking around. What can we learn from you guys?
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby curt » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:42 pm

I played Ultimate for 2-3 years before ever throwing a golf disc. I am usually upset with myself if a shot within 150' is more than about 5' away from the basket. I truly expect these shots to be sitting at the base of the pole.

I think the lessons to be learned from ultimate are the repetition of the action. I've literally thrown thousands of throws in the 50-100' range while playing ultimate, and it is a range I am very comfortable with. Another aspect of the transition from ultimate to golf is how the disc has to be thrown. The Ultra Star is very sensitive, and if you try to throw it like a golf disc it is going to turn and burn. When I'm in this range on the golf course, I find myself throwing my putters like I throw when I'm playing Ultimate. You have to focus on the snap and sort of flicking the disc. Doing this makes golf discs a lot more stable, btw.

Really, when it all comes down to it, I think the take away from Ultimate players is that they spend lots and lots of time throwing frisbees. By throwing so much, you learn a lot about how a specific disc flies and learn a lot of disc skill. This translates into knowing a lot about mechanics and how to throw at a certain distances. So, I think that you'll either want to spend a great deal of time playing catch, or spend an equal amount of time throwing golf discs around a field. Also, there's something to be said about the ability to throw a lid. It translates into being able to throw drivers without strong arming.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby JR » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 am

I don't play Ultimate but played DG with lids for the first two years. Ultra-Stars and other lids are slow and maintain height well even at low speeds with low fade. That means that you can run with lids at chain height for a larger percentage of putting distance than with putters unless they are ultralights. No putter that ain't a lid can match the brakes of lids that can be thrown slower for the same distance and in case of a blow by won't usually go as far past the basket as putters. Despite lids having more height after the distance where putters start to fall until the ground. The exception to this is way overpowered putters maintaining height as far or farther but also blowing by way farther. Lids force clean form or they'll flip. Not all putters do that. Touch, finesse and varying degrees of fine control for power generation are needed for approaches with all kinds of discs and lids penalize strong arming more.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Smigles » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:58 am

I ploayed Ultimate for 10 years before picking up discgolf.

There are two very big advantages, but also some drawbacks.

Main advantage : I have thrown billions of throws. Literaly. I played hanling for most of these 10 years, I was realy enthusiastic and practiced almost every day. I threw and threw and then threw some more. It helps alot.

You also have a feeling for all different kinds of shots. Sidearms, overheads, scoobers, thumbers, I used them all on the ultimate field, to the surprise of my team mates and the delight of the oposing team :P

Drawbacks : The typical Ultimate throw is mainly spin, mainly wrist, and not as much hip rotation and arm speed as a golf drive. I had to learn driving pretty much from scratch. It went quickly, but still it is very different.


What can you learn ? Not much realy. It's mostly about repetition and practice, and you can do that with a stack of approach discs on a golf course just as well as you can do it with a ultimate disc. Go out sometimes and play some catch with a ultimate disc though, it's great fun once you are a bit used to the colossal lid and the enormous flight plate :)
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby garublador » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:23 pm

Smigles wrote:Main advantage : I have thrown billions of throws. Literaly. I played hanling for most of these 10 years, I was realy enthusiastic and practiced almost every day. I threw and threw and then threw some more. It helps alot.
It would take ~274,000 throws a day for 10 years to get to 1 billion throws. That's 3.17 throws per second continuously for 10 years straight just to get to 1 billion. You may want to reconsider the "literally" part. ;)

I'll echo the repetition part. Ultimate is mostly throwing approach shots so you get a lot of practice with them when you play. You get good at judging distance in that range and hitting an approximate mark when you throw exclusively in that distance for so long. Playing catch is just as good, IMO. As long as you vary the distances and the lines you take to get to one another, which you'll probably do anyway because it makes it more interesting, then it's pretty good approach practice.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby masterbeato » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Ultimate players aim.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Smigles » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:11 am

masterbeato wrote:Ultimate players aim.


Are you saying that you dont aim when playing golf ? :)
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Iman522 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:23 am

masterbeato wrote:Ultimate players aim.


^^^ This... :)

Just go play ultimate though! If you've never played it'll wipe you out but you will have loads of fun and it'll mix things up a bit. Ultimate is quite possibly one of the best games ever! (don't worry disc golf...your still one of the best games ever too :wink: )

Ultimate is such a fast moving game that you don't know how you pull of some of your throws. In Ultimate you are forced to throw between, over and around people but it is so fast moving that you don't ever practice unless you consider actually playing practice. The only practice ultimate players do is just playing catch with each other and trying crazy things in the process. So even though it has been said thousands of time on here...just go grab a disc, a partner, and go play catch.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby masterbeato » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:36 pm

Smigles wrote:
masterbeato wrote:Ultimate players aim.


Are you saying that you dont aim when playing golf ? :)


lol

i play ultimate with friends sometimes in the summers now, i just started. i noticed that when i am passing it is a very focused movement, i know where i want to put the disc, and since the pressure you really have to focus within a couple seconds, and execute it. everything is pure that way.

that is what i have noticed. basically their intention is to throw the disc in a pin-point location, and they are not afraid to either, they just do it.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby jubuttib » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:29 pm

I have a strange urge to play ultimate using two disc golf targets as the goals...
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Smigles » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:37 pm

Hmm I think I know what you are saying. I played ultimate for so long that the entire mechanism of pivot footing, stepping around, switchign from forehand to backhand etc became completely second nature and I didnt have to think about it at all. All I do when playing ultimate is looking at the people's run paths and look for holes to throw a disc trough :) Maybe I should start bringing the same self confident attitude to the golf course.

I still think that the ultimate throws dont need to be as precise as golf throws. If you imagine a line from the defender to the atacker you throw to, you can throw the disc on ANY place on that line after the reciever, and he will be there before his defender and catch. That's the shots I like most about ultimate, when you throw the disc into a totaly empty part of the field and know that in 5-6 seconds one of your runners will get there and snatch it.

jubuttib wrote:I have a strange urge to play ultimate using two disc golf targets as the goals...


I have seen some americans that are neither in our local ultimate nor in our local golf club doing this on our practice field ! I think there is such a game, but I dont remember the name.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby JR » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:30 pm

masterbeato wrote:snipped basically their intention is to throw the disc in a pin-point location, and they are not afraid to either, they just do it.


That's what i've been saying for a long time about putting NO fear allowed!!! Self doubts are always damaging in any throw but you make the most bone headed mistakes that are the most visible and not recoverable in putting. Look at the SoCal championships vids by murdermike the one that's linked in the home page of the PDGA now. That's insane skill level from everyone in putting. Philo Brathwaite made some of the most astounding putts in the vids and gacked a less than 10 footer.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby A buzzz and a beer » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:51 am

An ultimate disc flys different than disc golf discs. Even most putters are extremely overstable compared to an ultimate disc. Also the mechanics of an ultimate throw are a lot different than a disc golf throw. All ultimate throws are stationary and you are generally reaching out far to the side because you would have a defender on the other side of you.

The throw I would compare to how I throw an ultimate disc is when I an throwing an anhyzer forehand with my left foot in the woods or behind something and my right foot sticking out. Ultimate throws are a lot of snap and wrist rather than arm. So overall I think forehands benefit the most from ultimate.

I think the main thing that you can take from ultimate is to play catch. If you played catch with a putter as much as ultimate players play catch then you would learn every single way you could throw that putter and exactly how to do it every time. Its basically the idea of throwing the same exact disc thousands of times and on every type of line possible.
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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Sean40474 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:53 pm

A buzzz and a beer wrote:I think the main thing that you can take from ultimate is to play catch. If you played catch with a putter as much as ultimate players play catch then you would learn every single way you could throw that putter and exactly how to do it every time. Its basically the idea of throwing the same exact disc thousands of times and on every type of line possible.


I like to warm up before I play by throwing around a Rattler. This has really helped me with touch shots by playing with this disc.
It's all about discipline and focused practice!

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Re: What can we learn about our approach game from Ultimate

Postby Beable » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:20 pm

A buzzz and a beer wrote:An ultimate disc flys different than disc golf discs. Even most putters are extremely overstable compared to an ultimate disc. Also the mechanics of an ultimate throw are a lot different than a disc golf throw. All ultimate throws are stationary and you are generally reaching out far to the side because you would have a defender on the other side of you.

The throw I would compare to how I throw an ultimate disc is when I an throwing an anhyzer forehand with my left foot in the woods or behind something and my right foot sticking out. Ultimate throws are a lot of snap and wrist rather than arm. So overall I think forehands benefit the most from ultimate.

I think the main thing that you can take from ultimate is to play catch. If you played catch with a putter as much as ultimate players play catch then you would learn every single way you could throw that putter and exactly how to do it every time. Its basically the idea of throwing the same exact disc thousands of times and on every type of line possible.


Good stuff in this thread. I agree with this quoted comment. My anhyzer forehand is my best approach shot because I threw probably six gazillion of them practicing with my drunken intramural Ultimate buddies in college. The catch thing is a great comment also. Disc golfers (who can probably drive and putt me into the ground) seem sometimes unable to do stuff like play catch and do stupid things with discs. One of my favorite parts of hanging out with the club here is to play catch with the old skool guys in the parking lot, some of whom are free stylers, not Ultimate players. It's good to play around with the discs and get a feel for all the weird stuff you can do with them.

When I was in college, I didn't know disc golf existed. I had two kinds of discs: an Ultrastar and a 141g Frisbee. We used to throw that Frisbee at each other as hard as we could in the dorm hallways...trying not to hit the walls or bounce off the walls a little bit or whatever. Throwing scoobers, throwing stakers, etc, all in a very tight corridor.

With disc golf, it seems like a lot of the time the focus is on what tool you use to get the job done, where the other disc sports are more about doing cool shit with whatever disc you happen to have in your hand.

Sadly now, after a year and a half of playing disc golf, I can't throw a damn Ultrastar backhand any more. I've never developed a forehand drive, so I guess it's still 100% Ultimate. I do (almost) all of my approach shots in the same way I used to play catch with Ultimate players...with an established pivot and often stepping to my lie or to the side in line with it.
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